Unintelligent Design

Originally posted by OdBod
You dismiss science when convenient and when it contradicts your faith based beliefs.Yet when you need medicine ,energy,house,car,Internet ,food etc science becomes important. A person can live without your bible (billions do ) you cannot live without the benefits of science ! With reference to the creative process I would suggest it is far more productive within the entirety of human experience as opposed to just "innocent" imaginings .

Before you start running off spouting what I do and do not do with science you
should present something to discuss don't you think? If you have something
we can discuss on why you think science has some answers on how everything
got here please present them, if not you have nothing to stand on.

With respect to medicine, energy, house, car, internet, food what do those have
to do with the beginning of all things? That is the focus of a young earth not
how your CPU functions within your computer, if you can stay on topic I'd be
happy to discuss this with you, if you can give me something to think about
beyond human imaginings from people who claim their beliefs are rooted in
more than their own musings and imaginings we can talk. At best the only thing
I believe you'll be able to present are beliefs from people who claim they are
some how different than religious beliefs because they are basing theirs upon
what they think they see around them.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Before you start running off spouting what I do and do not do with science you
should present something to discuss don't you think? If you have something
we can discuss on why you think science has some answers on how everything
got here please present them, if not you have nothing to stand on.

With respect to medicine, energy, house, car, internet, f ...[text shortened]... ous beliefs because they are basing theirs upon
what they think they see around them.
Kelly

You are a young earth creationist , to you any scientific evidence that contradicts that position is wrong,that creates an intellectual dead end,further discussion is pointless .

Originally posted by KellyJay
Before you start running off spouting what I do and do not do with science you
should present something to discuss don't you think? If you have something
we can discuss on why you think science has some answers on how everything
got here please present them, if not you have nothing to stand on.

With respect to medicine, energy, house, car, internet, f ...[text shortened]... ous beliefs because they are basing theirs upon
what they think they see around them.
Kelly

To be specific about the young Earth issue, you have to ignore all science refuting a 6000 year old Earth, for instance, the Grand Canyon, which RJ thinks happened because of the flood but it was also pointed out by someone here the bigger issue is where did the sediment come from that built up the layers subsequently eroded away? It is just ridiculous in the extreme to look at such formations and come to the conclusion it is 6000 years old.

Or look at the spreading of the continents. It has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt the continents spread apart and slide towards one another and we see the spreading in action as we speak and can measure the inch per year of this spreading.

All we have to do is look at the evidence on the ocean floor and find 6000 years ago the spreading was rather close to the present spread (between the eastern America's and the western African plates) and see vast distances with exactly the same evidence that shows millions of years of such spreading.

Yet you would look at such data and say 'Nya nya nya, I'm covering my ears, I can't hear you. It has been calculated by honest men the age of the Earth by analyzing the stories in the bible, therefore we are right and you are wrong NO MATTER WHAT THE SCIENCE SAYS'.

Or the matter of the hundreds of thousands of years of direct ice layer data already gotten by ice core scientists in Antarctica, Greenland and so forth.

Your answer, oh, the data of the ice cores don't record years, even though we can directly see the buildup in ice layers year after year for the last 100 or more years such data has been taken.

You would suggest what happens now cannot be related to anything happening 5000 years ago when in fact is positively CAN be related directly to what is happening today.

You also have to totally poo poo the dates given by bristlecone tree cores which go back as much as 10,000 years.

And of course you have to totally disregard carbon dating which science has validated many times over, giving accuracy better than 20 percent for dates going back as far as 50,000 years and dozens of other indicators all independently collaborated showing ages far greater than the close in dates of C14 dating.

When I mentioned the rate of cooling of meteor strikes on the moon for instance, instead of pursuing it you just poo poo'd the whole idea, that idea being the moon would still be boiling molten iron red hot after only 6000 years of bombardment which is ABSOLUTELY clear happened eons ago. So much energy expended in those huge impacts would take hundreds of thousands of years to cool down to such an extent as we could not measure the difference as we see it today. That CANNOT happen in 6000 years, Thermodynamics studies shows that clearly.

Yet that line of evidence is simply poo poo'd like you are some kind of thermodynamic expert and can have valid opinions on such topics. Like you are a genetics expert and can speak as an expert on the analysis of the drift in genetic mutations over eons.

Like you can talk as if you are an expert on geology and just dismiss out of hand any data that refutes a young Earth.

All of those points I mentioned have to be totally dismissed by your cognitive dissonance to support your own unsupportable claim of a young Earth.

The fact that you and probably millions of other duped individuals continue this denial in the face of overwhelming evidence is a clear sign there is no intelligent life on Earth, at least in young Earthers.

Originally posted by sonhouse
To be specific about the young Earth issue, you have to ignore all science refuting a 6000 year old Earth, for instance, the Grand Canyon, which RJ thinks happened because of the flood but it was also pointed out by someone here the bigger issue is where did the sediment come from that built up the layers subsequently eroded away? It is just ridiculous in t ...[text shortened]... dence is a clear sign there is no intelligent life on Earth, at least in young Earthers.

I've ignored opinions refuting 6000 year old earth, for reasons we have gone
over which is you have no idea what so ever how or why this universe is the
way is. You do not know what caused it, you don't know what it looked like
when it began, you base your views upon the notion that processes you see
in place have always been, and that is a belief on your part. You being settled
in your opinion does not mean your correct, only that you believe your right
and no one will be able to make you think otherwise. You bring a lot of
assumptions to validate your beliefs, nothing wrong with that, but if wrong
all you base your beliefs on are worthless.
Kelly

Originally posted by OdBod
You are a young earth creationist , to you any scientific evidence that contradicts that position is wrong,that creates an intellectual dead end,further discussion is pointless .

Well if the earth is young that would have to be the case now wouldn't it?
You know where everything came from?
You know what the universe looked like at its very beginning?
Was there a period before everything sprang into being?
If there was such a period, what changed?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Well if the earth is young that would have to be the case now wouldn't it?
You know where everything came from?
You know what the universe looked like at its very beginning?
Was there a period before everything sprang into being?
If there was such a period, what changed?
Kelly

I could not improve on the previous post of Sonhouse.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I've ignored opinions refuting 6000 year old earth, for reasons we have gone
over which is you have no idea what so ever how or why this universe is the
way is. You do not know what caused it, you don't know what it looked like
when it began, you base your views upon the notion that processes you see
in place have always been, and that is a belief on yo ...[text shortened]... efs, nothing wrong with that, but if wrong
all you base your beliefs on are worthless.
Kelly

You continually underestimate the scientific value of independent work. All of the points I made are independent of each other. There is no relation between tree growth rings in Bristlecones and the spreading of continents. There is power in such independent dating techniques, which you cannot see, not having a science background. You and RJ and others continually poo poo each independent set of data as worthless because you cannot understand the concept of independent analysis.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, lays eggs like a duck, chances are very good that it is in fact, a duck.

Don't know why you can't see the evidence right in front of your face. Like looking through a telescope. You see the moon with millions of impact craters and you think, amazing all that could happen in 6000 years! But you ignore the fact that very few have happened in the last 1000 years of lunar observation. There was one recorded big strike sometime around the year 1200 or so, totally freaking out the astronomers of the day watching A SINGLE flash on the moon. Think about that. You can SEE millions of craters on the moon with a cheap 100 dollar telescope yet NOTHING big has been noted in the last 1000 years and you then would have to conclude millions of them had to have happened, what? 3000 years ago, 5000 years ago? And again, I would say, why is the moon not red hot from all that impact but you ignore thermodynamics to just poo poo such data. In line with my observation there is no intelligent life on young Earthers.

In perhaps an abortive attempt to get you to actually think for yourself, take a look at this, the mission data from the recent GRAIL dual probes of the moon, measuring gravity strength around the moon where more mass is shown in red and lesser mass in blue. Tell me where all those circles came from:

http://www.spaceflight101.com/grail-mission-updates.html

Data like this continues to accumulate year by year in MANY different scientific disciplines and so you box yourself and your YE buddies into a tighter and tighter box of denial.

You are like the moon lander deniers, you could be taken up in a moon rocket and landing right next to an Apollo site and SEE the footprints made by the pioneers there and just decide, WOW, robotics was SO powerful 50 years ago.

Originally posted by sonhouse
You continually underestimate the scientific value of independent work. All of the points I made are independent of each other. There is no relation between tree growth rings in Bristlecones and the spreading of continents. There is power in such independent dating techniques, which you cannot see, not having a science background. You and RJ and others cont prints made by the pioneers there and just decide, WOW, robotics was SO powerful 50 years ago.

You are either dismissing or maybe ignorant of the independent analysis that refutes all this so-called scientific evidence you claim to exist. However, you would not be ingnoarant if you had paid attention to my posts during the past year. 😏

P.S. I am not a moon landing denier. There was not much dust on the moon, was there?

Originally posted by OdBod
I could not improve on the previous post of Sonhouse.

I have no doubt about that.
Kelly

Originally posted by sonhouse
You continually underestimate the scientific value of independent work. All of the points I made are independent of each other. There is no relation between tree growth rings in Bristlecones and the spreading of continents. There is power in such independent dating techniques, which you cannot see, not having a science background. You and RJ and others cont ...[text shortened]... prints made by the pioneers there and just decide, WOW, robotics was SO powerful 50 years ago.

If you do not know how it all started, if you do not know what was the state
of the universe when it started, looking at rates today and claiming knowledge
about the past is no different than looking at trucks and cars on the highway,
you see their speed and deduce you know where they were an hour ago. Not
knowing how it all started leaves your guess work as nothing but guess work
based upon assumptions you cannot prove false or true.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you do not know how it all started, if you do not know what was the state
of the universe when it started, looking at rates today and claiming knowledge
about the past is no different than looking at trucks and cars on the highway,
you see their speed and deduce you know where they were an hour ago.

We have been through this many times and every time you fail to justify your claim.
If we studied 20 trucks on 20 different highways and decided that they all left one city at the same time, then I think it would be reasonable to say that we did know where they were at that time. There is no other reasonable explanation for the agreement of 20 different measurements.
But there is really no point discussing science with you anyway as you reject most of it. You even think relativity is wrong but that scientists made a lucky mistake and somehow the math works even though the science is all wrong.

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you do not know how it all started,.... Not knowing how it all started
leaves your guess work as nothing but guess work based upon assumptions
you cannot prove false or true.
Kelly

Basicly you are saying that if one doesnt know everything one knows nothing.
Ridiculous.

Stretch your mind and imagination to a future when Man does know everything.
That would mean the end of superstition and theism.

But your argument is that up until that point a god would exist!!!

You cannot base your faith - or pursuade others - on what mankind does not
know at the present time, unless you cede the fact that faith is only relevant in
the present time.

Choose.
😀

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you do not know how it all started, if you do not know what was the state
of the universe when it started, looking at rates today and claiming knowledge
about the past is no different than looking at trucks and cars on the highway,
you see their speed and deduce you know where they were an hour ago. Not
knowing how it all started leaves your guess work as nothing but guess work
based upon assumptions you cannot prove false or true.
Kelly

Exactly where is the guesswork in seeing the continents drift apart an inch a year and seeing the entire field of a thousand miles of such drift? You have to have a total blind spot to disregard such findings. Of course we know about continental drift, there is no guesswork there, we have motion pictures of it spreading in real time. And the magnetic field data showing where the rocks are when they cooled off, the direction of magnetization even tells the state of the magnetic field of the Earth eons ago.

It is not guesswork to count 10,000 rings in Bristlecone pines, actually seeing where one tree left off and another one starts, it is a continuous record going back WAY deeper in time than your 6K years.

It is not guesswork to count the ice core layers, we can see them add up year by year and it is a continuous record going back even further in time with no gaps for tens of thousands of years. This is not opinion, this is obvious to anyone with an open mind. BTW, did you look at the Grail mission data?

Did you even think with your own mind about the implications of meteor strikes on the moon and just how many there are and why is the moon cool enough to walk on now? That is not guesswork since 12 people actually walked on the moon and we know for a FACT it is cool enough to walk on, which would not have been possible if it were a mere few thousand years after the intense bombardment you would say happened what, 5k years ago? Or can you even process such thoughts?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Basicly you are saying that if one doesnt know everything one knows nothing.
Ridiculous.

Stretch your mind and imagination to a future when Man does know everything.
That would mean the end of superstition and theism.

But your argument is that up until that point a god would exist!!!

You cannot base your faith - or pursuade others - on what ma ...[text shortened]... time, unless you cede the fact that faith is only relevant in
the present time.

Choose.
😀

It is basically about patterns, if you don't know the beginning you don't know
what it looked a billion years ago. You don't know if it started in a way that we
could call fully formed, all you know is we see rates, just like cars speeding
down the road they are meaningless unless they are short term where we do
know the beginning from the end.
Kelly

Originally posted by sonhouse
Exactly where is the guesswork in seeing the continents drift apart an inch a year and seeing the entire field of a thousand miles of such drift? You have to have a total blind spot to disregard such findings. Of course we know about continental drift, there is no guesswork there, we have motion pictures of it spreading in real time. And the magnetic field ...[text shortened]... se bombardment you would say happened what, 5k years ago? Or can you even process such thoughts?

So did they always drift a part an inch a year was there ever a time when it
was faster or slower? You have a tiny bit of information and you are running
with it as if you did know all.
Kelly