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I would not agree with anyone who holds to that "remedy".
I think Ghost is trying to build up a case that I do not take seriously the matter of human sins.
Ironic.
Out of one side of his mouth I am flippant about human evil.
And out of the other, how dare I mention Gods judgment or the need to be SAVED from the real guilt of our sins by the Savior Christ.
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@sonship saidWhen you say Jesus has made suicide obsolete (when every day a theist somewhere takes their own life) that 'is' flippant.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
I have not been flippant. Or I have not withheld precise explanations of expressions I have used.
I do not think that some things you disagree with should be described as "flippant or compromising the seriousness of discussion here.
Perhaps it would be convenient for you to make that a focus and issue rather than demonstrate the invalidity of ...[text shortened]... YOU have made about the Christian life and gospel have "compromised your credibility on this Forum?
When you say a girl being forced to marry her rapist is a divine remedy (clearly not a good remedy for the girl) that 'is' flippant.
If you don't want to be accused of flippancy, don't be flippant.
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@Duchess64
This is lying as far as I am concerned.
And whoever wrote this is also lying or something exceedingly dishonest.
Sonship seems to have a fantasy that conquered women looked forward to being raped ...
This episode of real dirty fighting will last how long now?
I do not look forward to ANY crime against a man or woman - not now - not in the ANE a few millennia ago.
I do not fantasize the any people WISH to be conquered or suffer loss or misfortune because of warfare.
And in my belief there is a last judgment of an infallible God. In yours, whatever crimes people have done will go essentially unaddressed as we all just melt peacefully into the dust of an atheistic universe.
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@secondson saidGlad to hear it.
I would not agree with anyone who holds to that "remedy".
I didn't read this thread except for the OP and a few other exchanges between a couple of posters.
I didn't read any of sonship's posts.
Perhaps before chastising the Duchess it may have been prudent to have caught up on the thread. The topic is an important one.
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@sonship saidThe context doesn't save you here.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
'It is a divine remedy for the misfortune of someone being raped.'
Would you like to quote me in context? Let's say with a little more background discussion in that post.
Its is easy to isolate a few words for journalistic sensationalism.
Perhaps park your pride and acknowledge you need to give the topic a re-think.
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Sonship apparently prefers to deny that he wrote this:
"I have heard though that in ancient times when two nations were at war, the women would
*purposely* make themselves look beautiful and desirable IN CASE their people were defeated."
--Sonship
Show us now that you intend to completely ignore my clarification of what I did NOT mean.
When one writes a post, which is followed by a criticism because it was short and concise, not taking into account all nuances of a complex situation, clarification to avoid misunderstanding is allowed.
I allow YOU that procedure. If you don't want to allow me to do so, it doesn't do much for my regard for your integrity, sorry to say.
Now, I clarified what you should NOT take that post to mean.
What would happen 'in case their people were defeated'?
Women and girls were regarded as the spoils of war, to be divided among the conquerors.
And I subsequently indicated that I did not mean no exceptions ever occured. I did not mean to paint this as some idle or rosy scenario.
But Duchess will keep it up because her true colors as a exploiting propagandist is her skill to show off here.
So Sonship apparently fantasizes that women (he did not mention girls) 'purposely made themselves look beautiful and desirable' in order to appeal to or please the men who would rape them--known as enjoying the spoils of war.
When I get to another location, I will provide if possible the quotation from the book from which I derived this information.
You're exploiting the matter to create a strawman.
Sonship has shown that's a rape apologist, and now he seems intent on lying about it.
The rape apologist here, trembles at his Lord's teaching -
" You have heard that it was said, You shall not commit adultery. But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman in order to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. " (Matt. 5:27)
As a modern day Christian that is what concerns me in this Internet Age of movies, entertainment, marketing, etc. that without the grace of Jesus Christ, I'll never be able to stand before a holy God as He would want.
I don't need Duchess to lecture me on the seriousness of any sexual sin.
Now I was talking about the laws for ancient Israel for captive women from warfare - NO sex slaves, No rape.
Spend some time in Deuteronomy chapter 12.
Notice particularly -
Marrying a Captive Woman
…11if you see a beautiful woman among them, and you desire her and want to take her as your wife, 12then you shall bring her into your house. She must shave her head, trim her nails, 13and put aside the clothes of her captivity. After she has lived in your house a full month and mourned her father and mother, you may have relations with her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife.…
21 Feb 19
The post that was quoted here has been removedI am actually not positive that your perception of this (or Sonhouse's perception of this) would be universal ever, right?
Sexuality between cultures varies highly, does it not?
We have heard it implied that Canaanite, Midianite, Amelekite, etc. sexuality was extremely libertine, and we also know that many societies in the Near East practiced ritualized sexual ceremonies for religious reasons. We know that this was not uncommon even among the Egyptians, with certain feasts to certain gods being portrayed to be in such a manner...
Such a society would probably have different norms than you would expect. And this does not even exclude the possibility that more prudish societies would likewise be resigned to their fate (as women) and happily embrace new married life seeing no other option moving forward.
It is said that, among Chimpanzees, the females pretty willingly join the victors. I mean, what else are they going to do? Of course, we are not chimpanzees, but surely the psychology is not completely alien to our own.
But I think that we cannot actually know what the attitudes were like.
I think you are assuming the worst because the worst is what currently benefits your argument, and if you say he is assuming the best because the best is what currently benefits his argument,. it's kind of a ... Mexican stand-off of arguments, if you will.
21 Feb 19
@whodey saidBecause all life is beautiful and worth living, IMO.
@FMF
I have just the opposite problem. I look at all the injustice in the world running rampant, abortion, wars, slavery at an all time high in human history, and I wonder how God can be so merciful as to let them continue?
And this is why we often see that people in relatively poor countries like Nigeria and Bhutan can end up scoring very highly on happiness indexes, and this is why my grandmother's life as a poor farm girl with 8 brothers & sisters was often recalled in a way that was nostalgic and idyllic.
She could make a story about a frozen out-house sound like a fun clip from a movie, and not a bitter reality.
And that's beautiful.
I can also say, from my military experience, we tend to make the best of worst situations.
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@sonship
Following your recent disastrous communications with caissad4 and Duchess, are you reconsidering your strange remark that you have been waiting for more women to join this forum? Did you perhaps hold an archaic stereotype of a woman and believe they would sit meekly and soak up your wisdom?
21 Feb 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYou are insulting someone's wisdom while... insulting someone. There isn't much content to your post, it's just a personal attack on a poster with a minority position.
@sonship
Following your recent disastrous communications with caissad4 and Duchess, are you reconsidering your strange remark that you have been waiting for more women to join this forum? Did you perhaps hold an archaic stereotype of a woman and believe they would sit meekly and soak up your wisdom?
So... You are insulting a user who is outnumbered for not being "wise," while you are not showing any maturity or walking any kind of "high path."
If you wanted to impress posters, you might want to consider being extra charitable to posters of minority positions and trying to wade into the debate in some more balanced way -- and, of course, one that was free of petty insults.