Was heaven empty before Christ?

Originally posted by jaywill
I am not surprised at the twistedness of your reasoning?

There are probably no people who could not stop to thank God for [b]something.

Actually being thankful to God strengthens one to endure those things which he has to go through.

"The joy of the Lord is my strength"

Nice try. Back to the old atheist drawing board.[/b]

Why did you avoid answering the question?

Originally posted by jaywill
So you look back over the years of your life and there is nothing for which you could say:

"Thank you God ..."

...

All you can do is accuse your Creator of being an "evil bastard ?"
That is evil.

You mean something like:
(*) Thank you god for nearly exterminated all life on earth at the great flooding?
(*) Thank you god for all wars in the name of god you have given us?
(*) Thank you god for sending billions of people to hell because they've never heard about Christ?
(*) Thank you god for writing explicitly in your bible that homosexual people should be slaughtered, women shoud be quiet and not make a fuzz, slaves should be content with their miserable lives?
(*) Thank you god for for primitive cultures in South America, Africa and at more places on the Earth has sacrificed their lives and cultures in order to satisfy the missionaries?

No, certainly not. I would rather like your god to be a good and loving god. That would be the day.

And you think I am Evil? I haven't killed anyone in the name of god.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
I actually stumbled upon a religious radio talk show once and someone asked exactly that question.

The response the host gave was that they were in a purgatory or waiting area of sorts and when christ came along they all had the choice of believing or not believing and if they believed then they got a gold star and if they didn't then they went to torment in hell.

Purgatory? One has to ask the question, wouldn't this be like eternal life without the need to acquire material sustenance? Life without the need to acquire food and shelter would be a heaven of sorts would it not? I mean, lets face it, all of the evils that are done on Earth generally revolve around people taking things from other people. If there is nothing to take, then the opportunity to do evil is significantly reduced, possibly even extinguished. I therefore have to ask, what's better about heaven?

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
I therefore have to ask, what's better about heaven?

40 virgins for your personal pleasure?

Seriously, if you cant think of anything better than sitting around with no goods and nothing to do then you need to get out there and LIVE!

Originally posted by twhitehead
40 virgins for your personal pleasure?

40 virgins in the hand of Marinkatomb will probably not stay virgins for long. 😵

Isn't there a heaven for women? What will they have? 40 virgin boys? 😏

Originally posted by twhitehead
Why did you avoid answering the question?

You mean where did I assume your strawman argument.
Those were your leaps to an extreme in order to render any thankfulness to God as seeming absurd.

That was your perverted leaps not my reasonings.


I didn't assume that your strawman argument was what I meant.

Knock down your own strawman. It should be pretty easy.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
You mean something like:
(*) Thank you god for nearly exterminated all life on earth at the great flooding?
(*) Thank you god for all wars in the name of god you have given us?
(*) Thank you god for sending billions of people to hell because they've never heard about Christ?
(*) Thank you god for writing explicitly in your bible that homosexual people ...[text shortened]... That would be the day.

And you think I am Evil? I haven't killed anyone in the name of god.

============================

And you think I am Evil? I haven't killed anyone in the name of god.

=================================

Folks if you want to make anyone evil just kill in their name.

All blame goes to the name in whom you killed.

Originally posted by jaywill
Folks if you want to make anyone evil just kill in their name.
All blame goes to the name in whom you killed.

I think you understood me perfectly correct.
This is what christian people has done in ages.
From the time of the old testament until the Iraqi war.

Originally posted by jaywill
You mean where did I assume your strawman argument.
Those were [b]your leaps to an extreme in order to render any thankfulness to God as seeming absurd.

That was your perverted leaps not my reasonings.


I didn't assume that your strawman argument was what I meant.

Knock down your own strawman. It should be pretty easy.[/b]

I know we love to throw around the word 'strawman' in these forums, but you should look it up before you accuse someone of using it.
I did not use a strawman argument nor did any of my questions involve my demonstration (that you incorrectly believe is a strawman) that thankfulness to God is absurd.

1. You yourself suggested that we should see ourselves as lucky in comparison to others suffering. We are, you claim, 'spared' that suffering by God. If God 'spares' us that suffering, why does he impose it on others?

2. Why do I sometimes suffer? If God spares me sometimes, why not always?

3. Why should I thank God for the times that he spares me from what appears to be arbitrary meteing out of punishment?

All blame goes to the name in whom you killed, especially if God is the name.

Peace in that name NEVER blame God for.


Of course in skeptic land all credit does NOT go to any good or humanitarian effort in that name.

Only assign bad stuff to the name of God - sound and consistent "logic."

Food into hungry stomachs in the name of God - Ah we must thank Darwin for that.

Cloths put on naked backs in the name of God. Well, we can thank Adam Smith for that.

Shelter provided under the banner of God - we can thank Lenin for that.

Wars under the banner of God? NOW that we can give credit to God for !

Aren't skeptics consistent and logical ?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I think you understood me perfectly correct.
This is what christian people has done in ages.
From the time of the old testament until the Iraqi war.

So on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being the lowest level of morality and 10 being the highest level of morality:

Where do you place Jesus Christ and where do you place yourself ?

At least with Christ I know that He said we will know them by their fruits.

At least with Christ I know that no one gets away with anything. All who have worked in His name will have to give an account before Him one day.

At least with God there is a last judgement. In your philosophy the evil doers will probably just jump into their graves laughing knowing that they are simply going to melt peacefully into dust and account to no one.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
According to most christians I have met, yes they are going to hell after they're dead.

get out of here, thats so ridiculous its not even funny

Originally posted by twhitehead
I know we love to throw around the word 'strawman' in these forums, but you should look it up before you accuse someone of using it.
I did not use a strawman argument nor did any of my questions involve my demonstration (that you incorrectly believe is a strawman) that thankfulness to God is absurd.

1. You yourself suggested that we should see ourselv ...[text shortened]... r the times that he spares me from what appears to be arbitrary meteing out of punishment?

================================

So if I come to your house, rape your wife, murder your children, whip you half to death and then allow you two hours of TV before you die, would you thank me for the TV time?

Would I no longer be evil? Would you be "unbelievably wicked" if you called me evil?

The obvious and glaring flaw in your argument is that one good deed does not wipe out bad deeds.

=======================================


You may be right. These don't even qualify to be discribed as lousy strawman arguments.


All I implied was that Fabian could look back on his life and find something to thank God for.

Even as an agnostic - a gentlemen agnostic could pray:

"I don't know if God exists. But if there is a God I want to say thank you God for at least this or that. "


How you can twist that normal attitude of human gratitude into more twisted excuses to deny God any thanks at all is your perverted reasoning.

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
Purgatory? One has to ask the question, wouldn't this be like eternal life without the need to acquire material sustenance? Life without the need to acquire food and shelter would be a heaven of sorts would it not? I mean, lets face it, all of the evils that are done on Earth generally revolve around people taking things from other people. If there is no ...[text shortened]... ntly reduced, possibly even extinguished. I therefore have to ask, what's better about heaven?

good and evil are actually subjective notions. doent it all depend on what you are told to think?

Is there or is there not ANYTHING for which you might be thankful to God for ?

That is the question.

Does it kill you to admit that perhaps there is ?

Does it kill you to not be able to make God out to be the total bad one ?

I bet you couldn't even say "Hey, if you are real God, at least thanks that I can read this message with a sound set of eyes."


Enter the desperate skeptic - "Yea ? Thanks that all those other blind people have to suffer. Aren't I smart ? "