Was heaven empty before Christ?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
[b]"they were in a purgatory or waiting area of sorts"
Is this some kind of truth, or is it made up to fit some pope?
Please give me a passage from the bible that confirms this.[/b]

I actually laughed myself when I heard it.

I wouldn't know any passage from the bible that confirms it, I imagine there isn't one. This was the claim of the radio show host that I heard.

I am not claiming this is true at all. I don't believe in god, never the less this ridiculous idea.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
What about jews? Are they going to heaven or hell after they're dead?

According to most christians I have met, yes they are going to hell after they're dead.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
According to most christians I have met, yes they are going to hell after they're dead.

So what you are saying is that jews are so posed to belive in one of their own(jesus) in order to come to heaven?
I cant tell you on how many levels you are wrong and a bit racist in that remark.
So let me inform you on the fact the very fact of the idea of heaven is totaly jewish idea. And the heaven and hell is apart of a rabbinic thought. If we now can concloud that jesus was a rabbi of his time...
So your mix and match got to go mate.

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
If you can only gain entry to heaven by being a follower of Christ, doesn't this mean that countless thousands of generations who lived before never got the opportunity to go to heaven? What happened to all those souls? Did they all go to hell or just disappear?

Paul covered this in the Bible when he noted that "Abraham (and others before Christ) were righteous, and their righteousness was counted unto them as faith (in Christ)." So, those who were righteous, but born before Jesus was born, are in heaven. Not to worry.

Originally posted by theprotectors
So what you are saying is that jews are so posed to belive in one of their own(jesus) in order to come to heaven?
I cant tell you on how many levels you are wrong and a bit racist in that remark.
So let me inform you on the fact the very fact of the idea of heaven is totaly jewish idea. And the heaven and hell is apart of a rabbinic thought. If we now can concloud that jesus was a rabbi of his time...
So your mix and match got to go mate.

How was what I said racist? I said that most of the christians that I have met believe that jews go to hell when they die because they don't believe that jesus was the son of god or the messiah.

I said nothing about christians in totality or jews in totality. How was it racist?

I am not saying what jews are supposed to believe in at all. Where did I say that?

The idea of heaven being a jewish idea is irrelevant to what christians believe (although not all christians believe the same thing).

I'm also not sure what significance you place on jesus being a "rabbi of his time" - he was rejected as a messiah by most jews and rightfully so. Him being labelled a "rabbi" is pretty meaningless - especially when it comes to what modern christians hold in their beliefs.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
According to most christians I have met, yes they are going to hell after they're dead.

Often christians are supporting jews in Israel in their effort to jewify all Israeli territory, occupied or not.
Why support people who will go to hell eventually?
I don't get it...

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
I actually laughed myself when I heard it.

I wouldn't know any passage from the bible that confirms it, I imagine there isn't one. This was the claim of the radio show host that I heard.

I am not claiming this is true at all. I don't believe in god, never the less this ridiculous idea.

Sometimes it suffices that some radio preaches claim something, then it instantly it become The Truth.

Christians have their Messias, Jews is still waiting on theirs. Jews are in this sense a pre-messias religion still waiting. Their purgatory must be a big place holding all their souls waiting for the Big Question.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Paul covered this in the Bible when he noted that "Abraham (and others before Christ) were righteous, and their righteousness was counted unto them as faith (in Christ)." So, those who were righteous, but born before Jesus was born, are in heaven. Not to worry.

Where did Paul say this?

Doesn't the book of Hebrews say that Abraham's faith (written as believing God) is credited to him as righteousness? Not the other way around?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Often christians are supporting jews in Israel in their effort to jewify all Israeli territory, occupied or not.
Why support people who will go to hell eventually?
I don't get it...

Evangelicals specifically, as I understand it, see the all Jews returning to Israel as being part of the end of times prophecies.

By supporting all Jews going to Israel they see that as helping it along I guess. I don't completely see the logic myself.

On the other side there are the naturei karta who are a jewish sect who basically believe the violence is there because Jews didn't wait until the messiah - who will supposedly lead the Jews back into Israel and Jews should have stayed away until then.

=======================================

If you can only gain entry to heaven by being a follower of Christ, doesn't this mean that countless thousands of generations who lived before never got the opportunity to go to heaven? What happened to all those souls? Did they all go to hell or just disappear?

=========================================


There are many places in the New Testament which make it hard to believe that all people perish in damnation simply because they were born prior to the incarnation of Christ to be our Redeemer.

There are many places in the New Testament which indicate that the belief of the people in something symbolically pointing to Christ in what was at that time the future, was counted by God as them believing in Christ.

In the book of Hebrews we are told of a great cloud of witnesses observing the New Testament believers cheering them on as a great spectator croud. Obviously these croud of witnesses lived and died before the new covenant age and it does not say that they perished because of this fact.

They are called by some the heros of faith.

Incidently, the eternal destiny of the saved is not to go to heaven. It is more taught that they are transformed into the image of Christ to be collectively an eternal city called New Jerusalem.

They go into God and God into them. This is more the sense of eternal salvation. It is being brought to and joined to God Himself in a united and mingled way such that the saved live in God and God lives in them.

God seems to be a evil bastard...

Originally posted by FabianFnas
God seems to be a evil bastard...

So you look back over the years of your life and there is nothing for which you could say:

"Thank you God ..."

You have been allowed many years of happiness. Though you have not had a perfect life you have nonetheless had many happy days. You cannot thank God for even one day of your happiness? Instead all you can do is call God an evil baastard? How unbelievably wicked of you.


If you look around you you will see that you were spared many things that other people had to endure. You could have had some deseases that you did not have. You could have been without the mental facility to even write. There were accidents that others had to suffer which you were spared. There were calamities which you did not have to undure.
Though life has not been perfect for you you still have had many good days.

You have absolutely no gratitude towards God for any of them?
Maybe it is you who are behaving like an evil fatherless one.


Did you ever stop for one moment of your life to thank God for anything?

Instead all you can do is call God and evil bastard. How encredibly unthankful and wicked of you.

You are unthankful to God but only wish to insult God. Yet God will continue to love you and provide you with many more days for you to make your choices and do your self chosen things.

You seem to be a good chess player. Did you ever think to stop for a moment and thank God for the soundness of the mind you were born with? Even a decent agnostic could say:

"God, just in case you are real, I want to pause and thank you that I was born with a good sound mind that allows me to play chess well."


All you can do is accuse your Creator of being an "evil bastard ?"
That is evil.

Forget about the believers going away into heaven forever.

"Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth." (Matt.5:5)


Christ's taught us to pray "Thy kingdom COME." He did not say "Thy kingdom GO."


The planet of earth is His eternal real estate.

" And have made them a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign on the earth." (Rev. 5:10)


Did you all get that? " ...REIGN ON THE EARTH ..."

Originally posted by jaywill
You have been allowed many years of happiness. Though you have not had a perfect life you have nonetheless had many happy days. You cannot thank God for even one day of your happiness? Instead all you can do is call God an evil baastard? How unbelievably wicked of you.

If you look around you you will see that you were spared many things that other people ...[text shortened]... not have to undure.
Though life has not been perfect for you you still have had many good days.

So if I come to your house, rape your wife, murder your children, whip you half to death and then allow you two hours of TV before you die, would you thank me for the TV time? Would I no longer be evil? Would you be "unbelievably wicked" if you called me evil?
The obvious and glaring flaw in your argument is that one good deed does not wipe out bad deeds.

Tell me why:
1. All those 'other' people you mention have to suffer.
2. Why the little suffering I have endured was necessary.
3. What meaning such thanks would have anyway. Its as meaningless as thanking the rain clouds for the rain (on the days that it does actually rain).

========================

All those 'other' people you mention have to suffer.

=======================


I am not surprised at the twistedness of your reasoning?

There are probably no people who could not stop to thank God for something.

Actually being thankful to God strengthens one to endure those things which he has to go through.

"The joy of the Lord is my strength"

Nice try. Back to the old atheist drawing board.