18 Jan 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne"...righteousness is required for "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation."
[b]I'm trying to stop myself from giggling....what they will see from my posting history is how I have tried to use the same logic you use in your arguments and reflect them back to you.
It certainly isn't the same logic that I use. It's the "reasoning" that you use. The same "reasoning" that leads you to believe that two half-truths equal a whole ...[text shortened]... that righteousness is required for "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation.[/b]
You're not paying attention. No one is disputing that righteousness is required.
What is disputed is how righteousness is obtained.
18 Jan 10
2 edits
Originally posted by josephwI think most people understand what I mean. It's easier to say "righteousness", than "become righteous, i.e. the embodiment of truth, love, compassion, justice, etc. where one cannot continue to commit sin."
[b]"...righteousness is required for "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation."
You're not paying attention. No one is disputing that righteousness is required.
What is disputed is how righteousness is obtained.[/b]
Many Christians seem to like to believe that they are "righteous" even though they continue to act most unrighteously. It's a contradiction that they choose to cast a blind eye towards. It sad really: "We're righteous even though, on the whole, we're no better at following the teachings of Jesus than non-Christians."
18 Jan 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne"I think most people understand what I mean."
I think most people understand what I mean. It's easier to say "righteousness", than "become righteous, i.e. the embodiment of truth, love, compassion, justice, etc. where one cannot continue to commit sin."
Many Christians seem to like to believe that they are "righteous" even though they continue to act most unrighteously. It's a contradiction that they choose to cast a blind eye towards.
Oh yes. We know exactly what you mean.
By the way. I noticed that your debates are never against atheists in defense of the faith. Instead you seem to have a propensity for finding fault with those who do.
The righteousness of God required for salvation is not obtainable by human effort.
18 Jan 10
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwWell, if you know, then why are you being a wise-guy about it? 🙂
[b]"I think most people understand what I mean."
Oh yes. We know exactly what you mean.
By the way. I noticed that your debates are never against atheists in defense of the faith. Instead you seem to have a propensity for finding fault with those who do.
The righteousness of God required for salvation is not obtainable by human effort.[/b]
Not very many atheists take exception to the teachings of Jesus. In fact, most seem to find them quite sound. It's the "Christians" who seem to have a problem with it. Some to the point of deranged obsession.
18 Jan 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne"Some to the point of deranged obsession."
Well, if you know, then why are you being a wise-guy about it? 🙂
Not very many atheists take exception to the teachings of Jesus. In fact, most seem to find them quite sound. It's the "Christians" who seem to have a problem with it. Some to the point of deranged obsession.
Deranged obsession about the teachings of Jesus? Now who could that be?
Let's be honest. You have stated repeatedly that it is the words of Jesus that take president over all others. You quote Jesus to support your claim that one must be righteous in order to have eternal life. I'll not argue with that.
But the one thing you fail to show is how righteousness is obtained. Quoting Jesus saying one must be righteous in order to be saved doesn't tell how one becomes righteous.
"Do this the law demands
but gives me neither feet nor hands
a better way the gospel brings
it bids me fly and gives me wings"
18 Jan 10
6 edits
Originally posted by josephwDeranged obsession about taking exception to the teachings of Jesus.
"[b]Some to the point of deranged obsession."
Deranged obsession about the teachings of Jesus? Now who could that be?
Let's be honest. You have stated repeatedly that it is the words of Jesus that take president over all others. You quote Jesus to support your claim that one must be righteous in order to have eternal life. I'll not argue with that. er feet nor hands
a better way the gospel brings
it bids me fly and gives me wings"[/b][/b]
But I think you knew that too.
But the one thing you fail to show is how righteousness is obtained. Quoting Jesus saying one must be righteous in order to be saved doesn't tell how one becomes righteous.
"If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free...Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever;"
Continue in His word so that you are made free of the slavery of committing sin.
"Seek and ye shall find."
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."
“If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it."
"He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour."
"Why do you call me,'Lord, Lord,' and don't do the things which I say?
Everyone who comes to me, and hears my words, and does them, I will show you who he is like.
He is like a man building a house, who dug and went deep, and laid a foundation on the rock. When a flood arose, the stream broke against that house, and could not shake it, because it was founded on the rock.
But he who hears, and doesn't do, is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream broke, and immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great."
18 Jan 10
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneSo , Jesus teaches us how to pray daily to God and explicitly includes "Forgive us our trespasses " in this structure of prayer.
[b]I'm trying to stop myself from giggling....what they will see from my posting history is how I have tried to use the same logic you use in your arguments and reflect them back to you.
It certainly isn't the same logic that I use. It's the "reasoning" that you use. The same "reasoning" that leads you to believe that two half-truths equal a whole that righteousness is required for "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation.[/b]
Logically this implies that he expects those who follow him will have need of confession and therefore cannot be totally sinless.
Care to point out to me where I have gone wrong in my "reasoning"?
BTW- As for "fatal attractions" - it seems you are "fatally attracted" to the teachings and words of a man in whom you will not publicly profess belief. You are "fatally attracted" to slagging off Christians and Christianity at every possible post.
In short you seem obsessed with Jesus and Christianity but appear not to believe in God or believe that Jesus was ressurected. And you call me "fatally attracted" and a "nutter"?
Why do you do any of this if you don't believe any of it? If you don't believe that Jesus was the Son Of God sent by his Father to die and rise again , then what's in it for you? Do you want to start some obscure cult? Do you take some twisted pleasure from trying to unsettle Christians?
You seem fatally attracted to someone you do not actually believe was who he said he was. And you call me a nutter.......... 🙄
18 Jan 10
Originally posted by josephwDeranged obsession about the teachings of Jesus? Now who could that be?
"[b]Some to the point of deranged obsession."
Deranged obsession about the teachings of Jesus? Now who could that be?
Let's be honest. You have stated repeatedly that it is the words of Jesus that take president over all others. You quote Jesus to support your claim that one must be righteous in order to have eternal life. I'll not argue with that. ...[text shortened]... er feet nor hands
a better way the gospel brings
it bids me fly and gives me wings"[/b][/b]
---Joseph----------------
LOL!!!!!!!!!!
18 Jan 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobiealcohol abuse is gluttony
we do not allow gluttony, that is where you are mistaken, alcohol abuse is gluttony, we do not tolerate that, same as gaydos, we do not tolerate those who practice homosexuality, but your insistence that fatties are gluttons is erroneous, for metabolisms differ, its stupid and deserves to be mocked, therefore, i want to know how you plan to regulate ...[text shortened]... girth of those whom you would permit, if you please! fatties on the left, skinnies on the right
If you're talking about alcoholism then this is clearly false. Alcoholism is recognised as a disease by the World Health Organisation.
but your insistence that fatties are gluttons is erroneous, for metabolisms differ
This again is false. People are fat because of two reasons which are linked -
1) They don't exercise enough
2) They eat too much food, which is normally crap food.
Admittedly peoples metabolisms differ and some people do put on more weight easily than others. But i think you'd be hard pressed to find me someone who is overweight who has only eaten 2,000 calories everyday of their lives.
Some i'm afraid 'fatties' as you put them are gluttonous.
18 Jan 10
2 edits
Originally posted by Proper Knobwrong Noobster, there are many reasons why a person might appear to be overweight, water retention for example, glandular problems, slow metabolism, all of which are outside the persons control.
[b]alcohol abuse is gluttony
If you're talking about alcoholism then this is clearly false. Alcoholism is recognised as a disease by the World Health Organisation.
but your insistence that fatties are gluttons is erroneous, for metabolisms differ
This again is false. People are fat because of two reasons which are linked -
1) They ies everyday of their lives.
Some i'm afraid 'fatties' as you put them are gluttonous.[/b]
we are also perfectly at liberty to state that while alcohol abuse may be considered by the WHO organisation as a disease, like smoking, its a preventable one, through self restraint and moderation, thus, over indulgence whether intermittently or prolonged is gluttony. how you can hope to state that this is not the case i do not know, for one to become an alcoholic, one needs to persistently overindulge in the first instance, it is not done after a large glass of Pimms no1 with crushed ice, summer fruits and lemonade, is it!
lastly, i want to know how you shall enforce your gluttony in a judicial sense, shall you weigh those whom you deem are overweight? shall you have a hoop that they must pass through. please explain for old thinkofone was at quite a loss after having made his mock worthy assertion.
18 Jan 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI'm not talking about why people 'appear' to be overweight, i'm talking about why thery are overweight.
wrong Noobster, there are many reasons why a person might appear to be overweight, water retention for example, glandular problems, slow metabolism, all of which are outside the persons control.
we are also perfectly at liberty to state that while alcohol abuse may be considered by the WHO organisation as a disease, like smoking, its a preventable ...[text shortened]... ease explain for old thinkofone was at quite a loss after having made his mock worthy assertion.
Obesity does not just happen overnight - it develops gradually from poor diet and lifestyle choices and, to some extent, from your genes.
In less than one out of every 100 cases, there is a medical reason for obesity.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Obesity/Pages/Causes.aspx
It's not up to me to enforce a gluttony law, it's contained within the scripture that you follow. The problem is yours to solve.
18 Jan 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Proper Knobi see, but being overweight is not synonymous with gluttony, you are aware of that. Gluttony is greed or over indulgence, which a skinny person may equally be guilty of.
I'm not talking about why people 'appear' to be overweight, i'm talking about why thery are overweight.
Obesity does not just happen overnight - it develops gradually from poor diet and lifestyle choices and, to some extent, from your genes.
In less than one out of every 100 cases, there is a medical reason for obesity.
http://www. y law, it's contained within the scripture that you follow. The problem is yours to solve.
18 Jan 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell it depends on how you define 'overweight'.
i see, but being overweight is not synonymous with gluttony, you are aware of that.
Technically i am borderline overweight according to my BMI, but i have a bodyfat percentage of around 10-15%, so i am not fat. The same with Usain Bolt, he has a BMI of 25, the same as me, but you would hardly call the fastest man ever to be nearly overweight.
But it still stands that the large percentage of people who are overweight, and who have a high percentage of bodyfat are so because of the reasons given above. They eat too much food, and they don't exercise.
18 Jan 10
Originally posted by Proper Knobi do not think you can state that with any certainty, for example, you have an office worker who eats the same as a manual worker doing a physically demanding job, they may eat the same amount of and type of food, but because the manual worker shall expend more calories, he remains neat and trim, but the office worker puts on weight. now this cannot be construed as gluttony can it? for he eats the same amount of and type of food, yes it leads to being overweight, yes it is unhealthy, but its not gluttony.
Well it depends on how you define 'overweight'.
Technically i am borderline overweight according to my BMI, but i have a bodyfat percentage of around 10-15%, so i am not fat. The same with Usain Bolt, he has a BMI of 25, the same as me, but you would hardly call the fastest man ever to be nearly overweight.
But it still stands that the large perce ...[text shortened]... t are so because of the reasons given above. They eat too much food, and they don't exercise.