10 Nov 12
Originally posted by avalanchethecatYou have been taught lies for so long that you can't recognize the truth when I tell it. 😏
No, the boy's a complete idiot, and there are christians on this site who are clearly far more intelligent than RJH. Most* of them in fact. I've been looking for a long while and have found precious little evidence to support the 'clever troll' hypothesis.
edit *probably all, but it's hard to be sure
Originally posted by avalanchethecatI have never done this. But put some salt in a glass and pour some water in it and see if the salt rises to the top, if it does then maybe my idea is wrong. However, it seems to me that putting a lot of fresh water in salt water would at least dilute the salt water so that is not as salty.
Oh my goodness you seem to get stupider with each passing day.
P.S. Another possiblity is that some ocean fish adapted to become fresh water fish.
10 Nov 12
Originally posted by RJHindsFirstly, about 97% of the world's water is salty. So when you mix your glasses of water, make sure you get the proportions right. Secondly, go and get some live fish, some freshwater, some saltwater. Then transfer them into salt and freshwater respectively. You can even do it gradually over forty days and nights if it makes you feel happier. They won't 'adapt', they'll die. Don't take my word for it though, do the experiment.
I have never done this. But put some salt in a glass and pour some water in it and see if the salt rises to the top, if it does then maybe my idea is wrong. However, it seems to me that putting a lot of fresh water in salt water would at least dilute the salt water so that is not as salty.
P.S. Another possiblity is that some ocean fish adapted to become fresh water fish.
10 Nov 12
Originally posted by avalanchethecatI find it hard to judge intelligence when people hold irrational beliefs. The fact is that all Christians hold irrational beliefs and get more and more irrational when questioned about them. RJHinds posts a lot more than anyone else, and is not afraid of being laughed at for his irrational beliefs. He is also a lot happier to put his irrational beliefs out in the open and bask in his irrationality. He seems to think it is part of his religion.
No, the boy's a complete idiot, and there are christians on this site who are clearly far more intelligent than RJH.
10 Nov 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadIn the main I agree, religion in general seems pretty irrational to me, but RJH has repeatedly demonstrated levels of stupidity well beyond the simply irrational, and often entirely unrelated to his religious beliefs.
I find it hard to judge intelligence when people hold irrational beliefs. The fact is that all Christians hold irrational beliefs and get more and more irrational when questioned about them. RJHinds posts a lot more than anyone else, and is not afraid of being laughed at for his irrational beliefs. He is also a lot happier to put his irrational beliefs out in the open and bask in his irrationality. He seems to think it is part of his religion.
Originally posted by avalanchethecatNo one knows what the percentage was at the time of the flood. That is when this all happened. If you don't believe the Holy Bible then that is fine, however, I do. I also believe Jesus loves ME and that is why I am happy. 😏
Firstly, about 97% of the world's water is salty. So when you mix your glasses of water, make sure you get the proportions right. Secondly, go and get some live fish, some freshwater, some saltwater. Then transfer them into salt and freshwater respectively. You can even do it gradually over forty days and nights if it makes you feel happier. They won't 'adapt', they'll die. Don't take my word for it though, do the experiment.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
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10 Nov 12
Originally posted by avalanchethecati wouldnt mind so much if he just said it was magic, its his terrible use of science that makes him seem so stupid.
In the main I agree, religion in general seems pretty irrational to me, but RJH has repeatedly demonstrated levels of stupidity well beyond the simply irrational, and often entirely unrelated to his religious beliefs.
10 Nov 12
Originally posted by avalanchethecatI have been thinking about the problem with salty and fresh water and believe this may help in the understanding, and shed some light... maybe not. In the least in may help in the stimulation of the gray matter.
Firstly, about 97% of the world's water is salty. So when you mix your glasses of water, make sure you get the proportions right. Secondly, go and get some live fish, some freshwater, some saltwater. Then transfer them into salt and freshwater respectively. You can even do it gradually over forty days and nights if it makes you feel happier. They won't 'adapt', they'll die. Don't take my word for it though, do the experiment.
Definitions...
All scripture reference – (NIV) New International Version
Mt. Everest is ~ 29,029 feet high, from what I understand it increases in height ever so slightly (about an inch) each year. You can extrapolate backwards and figure out what the height may have been whenever the flood happened, I personally was not there so I can't say… it’s up to you. Based on biblical account and biblical scholars the flood was between 4500 – 6500 years ago. Use 6,500 years if you wish, the age of the flood is not really important.
Water salinity 3.5ppt
Mile = A mile is 5,280 feet
Height of Mt. Everest = 29,029 feet, if you divide the height of Mt. Everest by a mile you will get approx. 5.5 miles above what we consider sea level.
The diameter of the earth is ~ 7,926 miles with a circumference of ~ 24,888 miles give or take by today's data, and a quick check on the internet .
A cubit is ~ 18 inches, again quick check from the internet, I am not sure if the measurement was the same in ancient times, but I understand a cubit to be the measurement of a man's arm for the tips of the fingers to the elbow (the forearm). Reference, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubit
Water = Water is oceans, lakes, rivers, ponds, streams. It does not include water vapor, groundwater or clouds.
Flood Height = The highest level of the biblical account of the flood waters.
Peak Height = The highest level of water to the top of Mt. Everest.
Sea Level = 0 feet
Sea Depth = Average depth of the ocean.
Salt Water = All water on earth
The ocean on average is 2.65 miles deep, reference http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/oceandepth.html
I don't know what is used to determine the diameter of the earth whether it be the highest peaks or sea level, either way my point will be the same.
Salt Water = 97% of the water on earth (at least that is what the internet has told me from yet another quick check).
We find in Gen 7:11, 'In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.'
Water flooded the earth from the heavens (non-salt), and from the springs within (non-salt) or maybe some salt, I don’t know. All springs I have encountered are not salty.
And in Gen 7:17-20, ' For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18 The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.
Let's put aside the event of the flood, or as so many in this thread have already stated... myth. Let's for a moment agree to disagree and at least stop with the castigation of one another and figure out this problem.
Now here is where the challenge is...
What is the volume of water from -2.65 feet (depth of the ocean) to sea level. How does the volume of water on earth change from sea level at 0 feet to the top of Mt. Everest which is 29,029 feet or 5.5 miles (by today's measurement). If my calculations are correct the diameter of the earth during the flood of earth would change from ~7,926 miles to ~ 7,937 miles (rounding), adding .009 of a mile or so to add the biblical account of the waters rising 15 cubits beyond the highest peak (Gen 17:20). 15 cubits = (((18" x 15) x 2)/12)/5,280 = ~.009 miles.
For the purpose of this illustration...
1) Land peaks and oceans valleys cancel each other out.
2) Earth's diameter is 7,926 miles
3) Highest peak Mt. Everest 29,029 feet or 5.5 miles
4) Average ocean depth is 13,992 feet or 2.65 miles
5) 15 cubits = 22.5 feet
Problems to be solved...
1) What is the volume of earth's water from Sea Depth to Sea Level?
2) What is the volume of water from Sea Level to Peak Height?
3) What is the volume of water change Peak Height to Flood Height?
4) What is the difference in the volume of water from Sea Level to Flood Height vs. the volume of water from Sea Depth to Sea Level (measurements should be in cubic kilometers).
5) How does the salinity of water change from 0 feet (sea level) to height of the flood, I can already that salinity will change from 100% to 33% with the 2 to 1 ratio in height changes, with the actual math it may actually be about 18%? (guessing).
Some facts…
1) Fish can live in brackish water (part salt/part fresh)
2) The bull shark can live in salt water and in fresh water, their body allows for this change.
3) Chameleon’s change colors based on their surroundings.
I understand that from a lot of posts here, there are scientists that frequent this forum. Remember, the argument is not if Noah’s flood happened, but what is the change in the volume of water that covered the earth during the flood, and how might that change the salinity of the water, which fish can certainly live in.
This is the problem, does anyone have the answer; physicists, biologists I know you’re out there.
Avalanch, the problem with your arguement is your talking extremes, the changes in the water on earth have actually takin 1,000's of years... much more gradually.
-K
10 Nov 12
Originally posted by ZahlanziWow, your first post to me was at 9:20, and your second at 9:26. I am sorry I could not get a post in there in roughly 5 minutes and 'dance', I was busy... I was not ignoring anything, if you were in fact referring to yourself, if not what are you talking about? 🙂
it's nice to see you're already at the "ignoring a well thought out argument" part of The Dance. so you see why i am reluctant to enact a copy of it between you and me, when you do so well with sonhouse.
Regarding sonhouse, I interpreted his post to be a story and did not think it to be true, in fact I thought it was more poking fun at those who believe differently than him, that's it.
Sonhouse, it seems your story is true? ,sorry for the dismiss and my 'whatever', no disrespect meant, assumed it was more fun making.
I am not interested in semantics here , but 'whatever' is hardly a derogatory term by todays standard nor is it considered obscure, it is a part of everyday language. For me it means 'agree to disagree'.
Nothing veiled, no intent.
I hope you can take one man's difference in opinion and have respect as I do you, but I think you have already expressed your opinion there. For the record, I hate dancing!
-K
10 Nov 12
Originally posted by kd2aczNot only would a global flood cause significant changes to the continents, but young earth creationists have to throw out most of geology anyway so this whole calculation about the height of Everest is a waste of time. In addition to this, if the water was at least in part under the earth prior to the flood, there would have been major changes to the continents as it came out. Then there is the question of where it went after the flood. Did the continents rise?
Mt. Everest is ~ 29,029 feet high, from what I understand it increases in height ever so slightly (about an inch) each year. You can extrapolate backwards and figure out what the height may have been whenever the flood happened, I personally was not there so I can't say… it’s up to you. Based on biblical account and biblical scholars the flood was between 4 ...[text shortened]... 0 – 6500 years ago. Use 6,500 years if you wish, the age of the flood is not really important.
Generally your calculations for the height of Everest are a waste of time as there are too many unknowns.
10 Nov 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadI realize there are many variables and unknows. Does that mean you can't/won't given the data and parameters... calculate an answer? If anything it is a good math problem? It is pretty straight forward I think if you are familiar with certian math formulas, are you?
Not only would a global flood cause significant changes to the continents, but young earth creationists have to throw out most of geology anyway so this whole calculation about the height of Everest is a waste of time. In addition to this, if the water was at least in part under the earth prior to the flood, there would have been major changes to the cont ...[text shortened]... your calculations for the height of Everest are a waste of time as there are too many unknowns.
-K
10 Nov 12
Originally posted by AgergPlease see my response to Zahlanzi on 11/10.
Referencing your opening post in Thread 149205, what you said here in response to sonhouse is an example of why you fundies don't get the respect you think you deserve.
-K
10 Nov 12
Originally posted by kd2aczthat is what you don't understand (among many others). you do not get to have opinions when it comes to proven facts. or concepts contradicted beyond a doubt to be false. you may have an opinion on who the best football player was (it was pele, obviously) or what colour looks prettier on a car. you do not have opinions when it comes to proven science.
Wow, your first post to me was at 9:20, and your second at 9:26. I am sorry I could not get a post in there in roughly 5 minutes and 'dance', I was busy... I was not ignoring anything, if you were in fact referring to yourself, if not what are you talking about? 🙂
Regarding sonhouse, I interpreted his post to be a story and did not think it to be true, ...[text shortened]... you have already expressed your opinion there. For the record, I hate dancing!
-K
the global flood is not open for debate. unless you wish to give up on the "global" aspect of it . the geology proves it. the laws of physics proves it. it didn't happen. not maybe it didn't happen. it absolutely didn't happen.
btw, you may think that your whatever wasn't derogatory, but it was. when someone goes through the trouble of posting an argument here, at least you could do is use more than 1 word to express the fact that you have no idea how to counter said argument.
10 Nov 12
Originally posted by ZahlanziZ,
... [text shortened]... btw, you may think that your whatever wasn't derogatory, but it was. when someone goes through the trouble of posting an argument here, at least you could do is use more than 1 word to express the fact that you have no idea how to counter said argument.
I believe I explained this and rectified with sonhouse. I get it my friend.
-K
10 Nov 12
Originally posted by kd2aczWhy would you bother going to the trouble to calculate the potential salinity of a mixture between all of the water in the world and an as yet unspecified but clearly vast quantity of fresh water which appeared by magic and then just as magically went away? If you're happy to postulate the existence of this 'magic' water which has left no trace of it's existence anywhere in the geological record, why not simply postulate that god made all the fish able to breath salt or fresh water for the duration of the flood by some equally magical means? Why do you think it's ok to mix magic and science? It isn't. Science says there's no magic. If you want to use magic in this argument, you first need to prove that magic is possible.
I have been thinking about the problem with salty and fresh water and believe this may help in the understanding, and shed some light... maybe not. In the least in may help in the stimulation of the gray matter.
Definitions...
All scripture reference – (NIV) New International Version
Mt. Everest is ~ 29,029 feet high, from what I understand it incre ...[text shortened]... water on earth have actually takin 1,000's of years... much more gradually.
-K