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Originally posted by avalanchethecatMagic is possible:
Why would you bother going to the trouble to calculate the potential salinity of a mixture between all of the water in the world and an as yet unspecified but clearly vast quantity of fresh water which appeared by magic and then just as magically went away? If you're happy to postulate the existence of this 'magic' water which has left no trace of it f you want to use magic in this argument, you first need to prove that magic is possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_(paranormal)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_(illusion)
Originally posted by avalanchethecatA,
Why would you bother going to the trouble to calculate the potential salinity of a mixture between all of the water in the world and an as yet unspecified but clearly vast quantity of fresh water which appeared by magic and then just as magically went away? If you're happy to postulate the existence of this 'magic' water which has left no trace of it ...[text shortened]... f you want to use magic in this argument, you first need to prove that magic is possible.
You know what, your right... this whole thing is an exercise in futility, so don't bother. Use terms like hocus pocus, magic, voodoo...whatever you wish, but it shows the lack of respect you have for others with a differing opinion/view from your own. I find it not only hard but almost impossible sometimes to in turn respect a person back who treats me/others in such a way, but I will continue to try. Such people in my opinion are a discredit unto themselves.
I know, I think you do as well... scientists come in all shapes and sizes and of varying different views on any number of things that fall under the umbrella of science. Many are diametrically opposed to each other at times, sometimes bitterly; Noah's flood is just one example, global warming is another (but that is another argument, used for illustration purposes only).
When one so tightly clings to science to explain something/everything, they are forming an opinion for themselves, they are aligning themselves with a particular belief/theory, and they are taking on an opinion. I do it, you do it, we all do it. If you think otherwise, you are fooling only yourself. Here we are talking faith, science, opinions all at once.
As far as how the waters appeared on earth, I gave the scripture reference earlier, as far as the details I have no additional information I was not there. Where did the waters recede to, again I was not there I cannot explain it, that does not mean it did not happen... many things cannot be explained, scientifically or otherwise.
How does one explain the complete turnaround with regards to an individual’s health who had been very seriously injured and prayed over and recovered when it would have gone a different way leaving doctor’s mystified? Magic? I recently was a part of such an event, and it is true God works in ways that we do not understand. His ways are not our ways. I use this only for illustration; science does not hold all the answers.
There are many scientists who hold to the theory of creation and their work supports it, but that won't matter to you because you have already written them off because of your view towards Christianity, but that’s ok.
This argument at its core, which is also what just about all the posts are on this forum are about... God vs. lack of belief or unwillingness to believe in God.
You (I use the term 'You' to represent all those who have expressed a differing view from those who claim to have faith in the God of the bible) ridicule, castigate, belittle, poke fun, etc. at people with a different view from your own, you call their faith magic. Rather than come to the point where the exchanging of ideas takes place and agreeing to disagree, there is name calling. Sad thing is, with all the supposed education that some espouse here, we have forgotten how to be human with one another, maybe we never knew how. Again, that is ok.
My point with the math problem, just so you know... was to maybe show how it might be possible from the biblical account of the flood, sea life could have been able to adapt in different levels of saltiness. I didn't really think anybody would give it a serious thought in light of the current culture that makes up the spirituality forum, one which is of harsh criticism and belittling, IMHO.
After all, it did take me awhile to write this up.
You want proof there is a God/Magic just look around my friend at creation and all that it contains, for it is His handiwork, it is evident in all His creation.
I just happened across this verse, interesting the timing, Job 37:5-6 NIV
I am only trying to make a difference, maybe make a friend and play a game of chess. People are just too damn rude, and I think they cannot see it.
A, I do respect your point of view and I know it is based on your worldview, education, experiences and upbringing. Mine is different.
I think at this point all we can do is to… agree to disagree.
-K
Originally posted by kd2aczI'm sorry that you have inferred a lack of respect for you from my posts, but you may rest assured that no such feelings were actually implied. Your analytical approach to what is clearly a 'miraculous' or 'magical' narrative is simply ridiculous, however. It is as fine as example of an 'angels on the head of the pin' exercise as one could wish for. That I recognise this is in no way disrespectful of you or of your views.
A,
You know what, your right... this whole thing is an exercise in futility, so don't bother. Use terms like hocus pocus, magic, voodoo...whatever you wish, but it shows the lack of respect you have for others with a differing opinion/view from your own. I find it not only hard but almost impossible sometimes to in turn respect a person back who treats m ...[text shortened]... e is different.
I think at this point all we can do is to… agree to disagree.
-K
Originally posted by avalanchethecatYou have always been disrespectful of views that disagrees with your own in the past. I can't imagine that you would have a change of heart, but everything is possible. How about a little respect for me and my views as well?
I'm sorry that you have inferred a lack of respect for you from my posts, but you may rest assured that no such feelings were actually implied. Your analytical approach to what is clearly a 'miraculous' or 'magical' narrative is simply ridiculous, however. It is as fine as example of an 'angels on the head of the pin' exercise as one could wish for. That I recognise this is in no way disrespectful of you or of your views.
Originally posted by RJHindsThe lack of respect I have shown for you and your posting is a direct consequence of the astonishingly rude and disrespectful manner with which you have conducted yourself, not just in discussion with me, but with pretty much everyone you have found disagreement with in these fora.
You have always been disrespectful of views that disagrees with your own in the past. I can't imagine that you would have a change of heart, but everything is possible. How about a little respect for me and my views as well?
Originally posted by RJHindsOf course there was a flood.....there,s no disputing a flood.
The Biblical Flood Explained
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=X16SE-N-8ys
Evidences of Noah's Flood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=q8ZKglfPdS0
But the Noah and His Ark are just a myth like most of the Biblical stories.
.
Originally posted by DasaYour Vedas is what is myth, a collection of stories suitable only as bedtime stories for children.
Of course there was a flood.....there,s no disputing a flood.
But the Noah and His Ark are just a myth like most of the Biblical stories.
.
They aren't even eternal. Oh, no, far from it. The oldest sections date to only 1500-1000 BC, and are therefore contemporary with the Hebrews' exodus from Egypt.
So please take your "eternal true religion" and kindly shove it. It's neither eternal nor true.
Originally posted by kd2aczYou should back away from the flood story and ask yourself this: Why would god destroy all the animals on earth because of the supposed failures of a few men? The number of men involved couldn't have been more than a few thousand, so your god destroyed literally billions of animals because of the failures of a few thousand men?
A,
You know what, your right... this whole thing is an exercise in futility, so don't bother. Use terms like hocus pocus, magic, voodoo...whatever you wish, but it shows the lack of respect you have for others with a differing opinion/view from your own. I find it not only hard but almost impossible sometimes to in turn respect a person back who treats m ...[text shortened]... e is different.
I think at this point all we can do is to… agree to disagree.
-K
That does not make sense right on top of it. Exactly what would your god be doing killing all the animals on earth for the failures of a few men? For instance, if this god was powerful enough to find a source of water ten times or a hundred times as much as existed on the whole planet and inundated the place and then got rid of the water all by magic, why wouldn't this god just go, you 3000 sinful men, you are now turned into goats or some such or just killed?
It is absurd to think a god would destroy his own creation completely just to fix the problem of a few thousand nasty men.
Originally posted by sonhouseWhy do you think there were 3000 nasty men? Why do you believe there were literally billions of animals? As far as why God would destroy, all I can offer is what is written in his Word...
You should back away from the flood story and ask yourself this: Why would god destroy all the animals on earth because of the supposed failures of a few men? The number of men involved couldn't have been more than a few thousand, so your god destroyed literally billions of animals because of the failures of a few thousand men?
... [text shortened]...
It ...[text shortened]... would destroy his own creation completely just to fix the problem of a few thousand nasty men.
Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. The LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them." (Genesis 6:1-7 NASB)
Who am I to judge or decide why God would do anything with his creation?
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Originally posted by kd2aczThat is utterly crazy. Of course there were billions of animals, haven't you seen the herds of wildebeests in africa? There are millions of species. How do you think they all got here? From one or two? They have been around for a long time. What do you think, there were only a few thousand animals on the entire planet at that time?
Why do you think there were 3000 nasty men? Why do you believe there were literally billions of animals? As far as why God would destroy, all I can offer is what is written in his Word...
Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautif esis 6:1-7 NASB)
Who am I to judge or decide why God would do anything with his creation?
It is completely and utterly absurd a god would kill billions of animals along with a few thousand men, or a few million, whatever. A god with that power could have dealt with what it thought was a tribe or two of bad people without killing all the animals on earth with them. What did the animals do to deserve that kind of insane retribution?
That story is nuts on the face of it. If that actually happened that a god could not tell the difference between billions of animals and whatever the number of men is not a god but an insane beast itself.
I can't see how anyone with half a mind could ever take such a stupid tale seriously.
For one thing, we know enough about genetics to know what the genetic diversity of such a culling would bring about, it would weaken this supposed god's creation to the point where a single virus could kill an entire species BECAUSE of the lack of diversity.
As it is in the real world, there is an incredible amount of genetic diversity in animals, that is the key to success of sexual reproduction because each offspring is a bit different from the parent which gives a virus or bacteria something new to attack, the genes make sure a single bad virus can't kill an entire species.
That is a fact. You may want to verify it but that is how it works.
In fact the lack of genetic diversity is one thing that separates humans from most animals, WE are the ones with a weak diversity index.
It has been shown the entire human race was almost driven extinct at one point in time, not the animals, down to maybe a few hundred.
The genes have already been analyzed.
If there were 2 by 2 etc, animals in the ark, there would be very little diversity in animal genes today, whereas in the story there were dozens of humans so the lack of diversity should have been in the animals not in humans as it is in real life.
Why can't people look at that story for what it is, an apocryphal tale, a warning by some priests about what COULD happen if your god was not worshiped?
Originally posted by sonhouseWell I don't know how many nasty men there were on the earth at the time. I don't even know how many animals there were, or even how many wildebeests there may have been. I think it is probable that we do not hold all the answers, although we sometimes would like to think we do. Just out of curiosity, what faith, religion, or whatever do you adhere to if anything?
That is utterly crazy. Of course there were billions of animals, haven't you seen the herds of wildebeests in africa? ...[Text shortened]...
Why can't people look at that story for what it is, an apocryphal tale, a warning by some priests about what COULD happen if your god was not worshiped?
-K
Originally posted by SuzianneYou don't know about the Vedas. You have no idea, so you are just as bad as Dasa in this respect for putting down something that you dont know about.
Your Vedas is what is myth, a collection of stories suitable only as bedtime stories for children.
They aren't even eternal. Oh, no, far from it. The oldest sections date to only 1500-1000 BC, and are therefore contemporary with the Hebrews' exodus from Egypt.
So please take your "eternal true religion" and kindly shove it. It's neither eternal nor true.
Just because Dasa is the only proponent of the "Eternal Vedas" on here doesn't mean that the Vedas are all crap.
Imagine if RJHinds was the only proponent of Christianity on here?
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Originally posted by kd2aczWow! The explanations get even more absurd.
Why do you think there were 3000 nasty men? Why do you believe there were literally billions of animals? As far as why God would destroy, all I can offer is what is written in his Word...
Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautif esis 6:1-7 NASB)
Who am I to judge or decide why God would do anything with his creation?
That's the first I've heard of an Abrahamic God (or any depiction of "God" ) , being sorry for what It created.
I have heard of many a anthropomorphic explanations of "God's" actions, and I am going to have to file this along with the others.
"God" is depicted as masculine, elderly ,etc. so that we may come to understand the concept ( "God" ) at the start. As we progress in our understanding of "God" we soon find that "God" is not some super human living above us.
I think that a childs drawing of what (s)he thinks "God" would look like is very revealing . One child drew a human being sitting on a cloud with like a hundred eyes. (Otherwise how could he see everything?? ).
You see how ridiculous it gets, and how quickly.