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Originally posted by Conrau KI don't see the relevance of some of those passages, since you could believe in bodily resurrection without the need to even believe in the soul.
So you are of the opinion that some will 'wake' for eternal punishment, others will 'wake' to live in heaven, while others will just sleep? It seems clear to me, at least from the NT, that there will be a resurrection of all and then a judgement.
Originally posted by Lord SharkNo you have to Believe in the soul to Believe in morality, every time you sin it doesn't effect your body, but it does your soul, when you die your body stops breathing but your soul goes to judgement.
I don't see the relevance of some of those passages, since you could believe in bodily resurrection without the need to even believe in the soul.
Originally posted by Rajk999We have a spiritual part of us, otherwise we couldn't have been made "In HIs likeness and image" because God is a Spirit.
You still taking that rubbish?
Image and likeness does not mean that man took all the characteristics of God. If he did then we would all be like gods.
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Originally posted by Conrau KBasically yes. The Bible is not totally clear on that issue. I think Daniel (not Daniel 58 !!!) said it correctly .. many will be raised. I dont think all will be raised. If you can find a verse where it says or implies ALL then maybe you will have a point.
So you are of the opinion that some will 'wake' for eternal punishment, others will 'wake' to live in heaven, while others will just sleep? It seems clear to me, at least from the NT, that there will be a resurrection of all and then a judgement.
When the Bible is unclear on an issue you have the option to speculate at your leisure (bearing in mind of course that you can be wrong). So my speculation is that since there are only two options after resurrection ie
- eternal life for the righteous
- death to the evil. ..
.. then it only makes sense to raise the dead who will fall into one of those two categories. Surely not everybody living since Adam will be either good or evil. There will be many who are neither - who were average, who were innocent, whose good and evil were about equal. Whats the point in raising them.
I think it was David that said .. ".. man that is in honour and understandeth not is like the beast that perish". I think that means if you dont know God you will live and die ... never to be raised.
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Originally posted by daniel58I disagree in this way. the doctrine of bodily resurrection is compatible with there being no entity (such as that you have labelled 'soul'😉 which survives the death of the body.
How? Doesn't it make sense? God made THE SOUL in His "likeness and image" not the body.
Originally posted by Rajk999"""Basically yes. The Bible is not totally clear on that issue. I think Daniel (not Daniel 58 !!!) said it correctly .. many will be raised. I dont think all will be raised. If you can find a verse where it says or implies ALL then maybe you will have a point.""""
Basically yes. The Bible is not totally clear on that issue. I think Daniel (not Daniel 58 !!!) said it correctly .. many will be raised. I dont think all will be raised. If you can find a verse where it says or implies ALL then maybe you will have a point.
When the Bible is unclear on an issue you have the option to speculate at your leisure (bearing i ...[text shortened]... perish". I think that means if you dont know God you will live and die ... never to be raised.
John 5:28 says all will be raised. Acts 24:15 says the righteous as well as the unrigtheous will be resurrected.
You learn something new everyday. Read your Bible!!!!!
Originally posted by galveston75Its exactly what I said. Both the righteous and the unrighteous will be raised. John 5 says exactly the same thing .. read the surrounding verses.
...John 5:28 says all will be raised. Acts 24:15 says the righteous as well as the unrigtheous will be resurrected.
You learn something new everyday. Read your Bible!!!!!
Are you saying that everybody since Adam is either righteous or unrighteous ?
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Originally posted by Rajk999What do these scriptures say? Doesn't mention any others. The point I'm making my friend is you said there were no scriptures that said what these do. Well, there you go...
Its exactly what I said. Both the righteous and the unrighteous will be raised. John 5 says exactly the same thing .. read the surrounding verses.
Are you saying that everybody since Adam is either righteous or unrighteous ?
Originally posted by Rajk999You would never accept that standard of argument from anyone else. Whenever you challenge a religious belief, you expect explicit proof from the Scripture. No where in the Bible is it said that some people rise for eternal punushment, others for eternal damnation, and others not rise at all. In the verses I cited, it is made obvious that all are resurrected (and I will take it for granted that bodily resurrection requires the continuity of the existence of a soul.) In Romans 2, St Paul is warning his audience of a last judgement that will befall everyone. You would have to twist those verses very far to say that what Paul really meant is that only bad people and good people will undergo that.
Basically yes. The Bible is not totally clear on that issue. I think Daniel (not Daniel 58 !!!) said it correctly .. many will be raised. I dont think all will be raised. If you can find a verse where it says or implies ALL then maybe you will have a point.
When the Bible is unclear on an issue you have the option to speculate at your leisure (bearing i ...[text shortened]... perish". I think that means if you dont know God you will live and die ... never to be raised.
Furthermore, when Jesus and St Paul talk about the death to the soul, they seem to think this is the ultimate punishment. It is the argument of their moral exhortation. So why should it befall only those people who live neither totally good nor totally bad lives?
Originally posted by Conrau KWhy should you not expect proof from the Bible? Where else would you want to find it? Certinally not from man who is mostly confused about spiritual things. The answers are all in the Bible. One just has to really want it and listen to the scriptures and prove what you believe by it. Not mans ideas. The Bible is not open to any private interpretations.
You would never accept that standard of argument from anyone else. Whenever you challenge a religious belief, you expect explicit proof from the Scripture. No where in the Bible is it said that some people rise for eternal punushment, others for eternal damnation, and others not rise at all. In the verses I cited, it is made obvious that all are resu ...[text shortened]... . So why should it befall only those people who live neither totally good nor totally bad lives?