Spirituality
16 Nov 20
Here is an open question to anyone here from any perspective.
I will start with me. I could argue that I call myself a “Christian” because I hold Christianity up as the prism through which my theism manifests itself.
But am I Christ like? Certainly not in these forums!
What about everyday life? Not much there either I suppose.
Do I follow the teachings of Christ? Well yes I could argue that I do, but it depends on how “follow” is used. By many definitions, I am not a “Christian”.
Are you a Christian? What makes you a Christian?
Are you not a Christian? What makes a Christian for you?
@divegeester
My penny's worth: A Christian is defined by his or her beliefs with regard to the life, death and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. A Christian believes that God sent his son Jesus, the messiah, to save the world. A Christian believes that Jesus was crucified and died in order to offer the forgiveness of sins and the opportunity for what they see as "salvation". A Christian believes that Jesus rose from the dead and later ascended to heaven. A Christian believes these things and endeavours to obey God's commandments, including those that Jesus is believed to have stipulated while he was alive, and demonstrate, by doing good works, that their faith is not dead.
There may be additional things that define certain groups, sects and denominations of Christians, but I believe the above is a basic starter-commonality-core for almost all Christians [to my way of thinking].
16 Nov 20
Here's my penny's worth.
I believe Christians are people who know these things-
They were created by God for the purpose of keeping His company
They are born in sin and that separates them from God
God, being perfect, can not simply ignore that sin and sent His only son, Jesus, so that everyone could again keep His company.
When Jesus came He told everyone to love one another and a Christian tries to do this.
16 Nov 20
@divegeester said'Christian' a useless label. It is clear from what Christ said that he does not care about these labels. An important question is 'who gets into the Kingdom of God and who gets cast out. Jesus made his answer abundantly clear, and Jesus's answer displeased Christians who do not ever quote these passages. They instead quote passages that speak of faith only as an avenue to the Kingdom of God, a doctrine which is condemned by Christ and all the Apostles, who all said in some way that faith without works is dead.
Here is an open question to anyone here from any perspective.
I will start with me. I could argue that I call myself a “Christian” because I hold Christianity up as the prism through which my theism manifests itself.
But am I Christ like? Certainly not in these forums!
What about everyday life? Not much there either I suppose.
Do I follow the teachings of Ch ...[text shortened]... a Christian? What makes you a Christian?
Are you not a Christian? What makes a Christian for you?
Here is Jesus's answer
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
(Matthew 25:31-46 KJV)
Its simple, those who do good works get eternal life
Those who do no good works get damnation
@rajk999 saidNot interested in your cherry picking any more than you are in mine, which in this intance is:
'Christian' a useless label. It is clear from what Christ said that he does not care about these labels. An important question is 'who gets into the Kingdom of God and who gets cast out. Jesus made his answer abundantly clear, and Jesus's answer displeased Christians who do not ever quote these passages. They instead quote passages that speak of faith only as an avenu ...[text shortened]... ] Its simple, those who do good works get eternal life
Those who do no good works get damnation[/b]
“But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”
Ephesians 2.
It is simple, we are saved, I.e. we attain eternal life, through Jesus Christ redemptive work. He has redeemed us, paid the price. Good works are expected as evidence of this faith.
What’s your next cherry?
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16 Nov 20
@rajk999 saidAnd this is a question you have no answer to: if you’re not going to believe everything written in the Bible why believe any of it at all? What criteria do you use do decide if it’s believable or not? Let me guess if it’s written in red it’s ok? Guess that makes you a red letter Christian.
'Christian' a useless label. It is clear from what Christ said that he does not care about these labels. An important question is 'who gets into the Kingdom of God and who gets cast out. Jesus made his answer abundantly clear, and Jesus's answer displeased Christians who do not ever quote these passages. They instead quote passages that speak of faith only as an avenu ...[text shortened]... ] Its simple, those who do good works get eternal life
Those who do no good works get damnation[/b]
16 Nov 20
@rajk999 saidIt's a shame, isn't it, that God had to spell out what loving your neighbour meant.
'Christian' a useless label. It is clear from what Christ said that he does not care about these labels. An important question is 'who gets into the Kingdom of God and who gets cast out. Jesus made his answer abundantly clear, and Jesus's answer displeased Christians who do not ever quote these passages. They instead quote passages that speak of faith only as an avenu ...[text shortened]... ] Its simple, those who do good works get eternal life
Those who do no good works get damnation[/b]
It's a shame on us that we couldn't work it out for ourselves.
16 Nov 20
@yo-its-me saidIt is a shame. But yes Jesus and the apostles laid it out clearly and Christians are expected to obey.
It's a shame, isn't it, that God had to spell out what loving your neighbour meant.
It's a shame on us that we couldn't work it out for ourselves.
But eternal life is found in Christ alone, his redemptive work grant access to eternal life through faith in him and not through the good works we are expected to do in obedience.
Conflating these two principles is error.
16 Nov 20
@divegeester saidCherry-picking is pulling out pieces of the writings [Paul in this case] and leaving out the rest which completes the story. If you continue in Ephesians you will see that Paul is telling these very same born again, saved Christian saints in Christ they they will NOT INHERIT the Kingdom of God unless they DO certain things and live a certain way.
Not interested in your cherry picking any more than you are in mine, which in this intance is:
[i]“But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 i ...[text shortened]... paid the price. Good works are expected as evidence of this faith. [/b]
What’s your next cherry?
How about quoting that for us?
16 Nov 20
@yo-its-me saidIts not a shame at all. If there are dire consequences for not keeping these commandments then they must be clearly spelled out in detail. There is a lot of variety in Gods creation and all people are not the same.
It's a shame, isn't it, that God had to spell out what loving your neighbour meant.
It's a shame on us that we couldn't work it out for ourselves.
16 Nov 20
@dj2becker saidI answered that already. The writing and teachings of Christ supersedes and overrides everything else in the bible.
And this is a question you have no answer to: if you’re not going to believe everything written in the Bible why believe any of it at all? What criteria do you use do decide if it’s believable or not? Let me guess if it’s written in red it’s ok? Guess that makes you a red letter Christian.
16 Nov 20
@rajk999 said???
Its not a shame at all. If there are dire consequences for not keeping these commandments then they must be clearly spelled out in detail. There is a lot of variety in Gods creation and all people are not the same.
You're very hard to understand Rajk.
Are you young? I don't mean this as an insult. I think we assume you're our age but I think you're much younger and we should make allowances perhaps.
16 Nov 20
@yo-its-me saidNot really interested in your personal remarks or insults. Like already said ... want to discuss bible teachings, count me in; want to gossip and discuss your opinion about people / me ? leave me out.
???
You're very hard to understand Rajk.
Are you young? I don't mean this as an insult. I think we assume you're our age but I think you're much younger and we should make allowances perhaps.
16 Nov 20
@divegeester saidThe notion that that is an error is the teachings of your church and it is not in the bible. You will find NOWHERE that Jesus told anyone that they need to believe in, or know about, or understand, or boast about [that Jesus died for me etc], his redemptive work on the cross.
It is a shame. But yes Jesus and the apostles laid it out clearly and Christians are expected to obey.
But eternal life is found in Christ alone, his redemptive work grant access to eternal life through faith in him and not through the good works we are expected to do in obedience.
Conflating these two principles is error.
If Jesus did preach such a thing then please quote the reference.
16 Nov 20
@divegeester saidI appreciate your post, your honesty and sincerity. Your openness is refreshing and inspiring.
Here is an open question to anyone here from any perspective.
I will start with me. I could argue that I call myself a “Christian” because I hold Christianity up as the prism through which my theism manifests itself.
But am I Christ like? Certainly not in these forums!
What about everyday life? Not much there either I suppose.
Do I follow the teachings of Ch ...[text shortened]... a Christian? What makes you a Christian?
Are you not a Christian? What makes a Christian for you?
I concur with your assessment of what being a Christian means in your life, how it is manifested in the way you live because it neatly dovetails with my own assessment of myself.
I am deeply invested in Christ, and he in me. I am aware of his presence, and more so everyday. I am learning that the link between God and me is directly attributable to how much time I spend in his word, and by my willingness to be open to his Spirit.
The Word of God and the Spirit of God go hand in hand.
I am also learning that obedience is key to spiritual growth. It opens the door to fellowship with God, and the peace of God.
So, to "follow" God, in my estimation, means not only learning what God's will is through study of his word, but following after his Spirit in obedience to his revealed will as expressed in his word.
No one is perfect. "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1 Corinthians 13:12