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Originally posted by Suziannewhy cannot man judge god?
This really goes to the heart of the matter. Believers say God's ways are better than man's ways, while unbelievers say no, man's ways are all that is important. They do not understand that man cannot judge God. It seems that anymore, most men cannot even understand God, let alone presume to judge him.
I'm reminded that the Hebrews were punished many times for abandoning their God. How far are we from our punishment?
What is important to God?
What is important to God is Christ.
Who He gave that we might be forgiven and saved from eternal judgment IS what is most important to Him - Christ.
He so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes into Christ might not perish but have eternal life - which is the divine Person of God Himself.
What is most important to God is Christ.
What is most important to God is that this Christ be also DISPENSED into men and women.
"The mystery which has been hidden from the ages and from the generations but now has been manifested to His saints;
To whom God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." (Col. 1:26,27)
This is an expansion of John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone who believes into Him would not perish, but would have eternal life."
Christ is most important to God. And Christ is the embodiment of the Triune God.
A picture is worth a thousand words. And this picture of the eternal salvation of the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21 & 22 shows Christ as the utmost important matter to God.
But be aware that there are some atheists afoot, vying with one another. They are perhaps trying to out-infidel each other, competing to see who can prove to be the most blind.
Don't listen to these with spiritual eyes plucked out vying for the most infidel of the infidel trophy. Jesus warned that some have eyes to see but see not and ears to hear but hear not.
" And He said to them, To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God, but to those outside, all things are in parables,
In order that seeing they may see and not perceive, and hearing they may hear and not understand, lest they turn and it be forgiven them." (Mark 3:11-12)
On to the picture in Revelation 22 in the next post.
(Yes, Oh skeptic. I am in fact enjoying myself. Praise the Lord.)
A picture is worth 1,000 words ( or 992, give or take a few).
Okay, here's a good picture showing what is eternally important to God:
" And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb in the middle of its street.
And on this side and on that side of the river was the tree of life, producing twelve fruits, yielding its fruit each month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
And there will no longer be a curse. And the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His slaves will serve Him; And they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads." (Rev. 22:1-4)
The throne is the seat of the ultimate administration of God. There are not two thrones - one for God and another for the Redeemer - the Lamb. It is "the throne of God and of the Lamb".
The throne is the government of God. The seat of administration is of the Man who died and rose to accomplish eternal redemption. And God is in the Man Who died and rose to accomplish eternal redemption.
God is in the Lamb. God is in the Lamb of God on the throne of God and of the Lamb. The Redeemer Jesus Christ is the mingling and union of God and man.
How then does He reign? How does God in the Lamb rule from the seat of eternal divine administration ? He reigns by flowing out the Holy Spirit as the water of life. He reigns by dispensing Himself from the Father and the Son as a flowing river of water of life into the city of New Jerusalem.
This is the Triune God dispensing Himself from the source of the Father through the course of the Son by means of the flow of the Holy Spirit. This is the Trinity carrying out that which is most important to God - the dispensing of Christ into man for man's enjoyment and God's expression forever.
What is important to God is that out of our innermost being the Spirit of Christ be spontaneously flowing as "rivers of living water". If you put the two following passages together you may be able to see that God living in and out from man's innermost being is God's eternal purpose.
" Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, If anyone thirsts let him come to Me and drink.
He who believes into Me, as the Scriptures said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.
But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified." (John 7:37-39)
Jesus wants to satisfy the thirst of man for life by dispensing the Holy Spirit to flow out of their innermost being as rivers of living water..
Now we see that this quenching of man's thirst is also God governing the eternal city in the new heaven and new earth.
The innermost being of all saved human beings is therefore the seat of the throne of God's administration. He governs by satisfying. He governs by flowing out. And He governs by dispensing God as eternal life into man.
" And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb in the middle of its street. " (Rev. 22:1)
The street in the vision of New Jerusalem is ONE street. There is no mention of "streets of gold" in Revelation. Go try to find the phrase "streets" [plural] for the eternal city.
It is ONE street of transparent gold as clear as crystal. One way to live this means. It is the [singular] way to live as a [singular] street of the divine nature of the Father.
The one street of gold signifies the one walk according to the divine nature of the Father. And the way the water flows the street goes.
The way the street goes the water of life flows.
Right down the middle of the street of the divine nature of God, the river of the Spirit of life flows.
Man lives by the divine nature spontaneously flowing out of man's innermost being. And from man's innermost being the seat of administration of God is there as an established throne.
This picture is about the Trinity dispensing God into man.
The street of gold signifies the divine nature of the Father.
The river of water of life, bright as crystal flowing out, signifies the Holy Spirit.
The Lamb of God on the throne of the throne of God and the Lamb signifies the Redeemer - God-man - Jesus the Son of God.
This little picture shows what is important to God is the dispensing of God in His triune being into millions or billions of human being to be a corporate mingling of God and humanity.
Originally posted by SuzianneAh. So you can identify what is right, by checking to see how mighty it is.
No. As Abraham Lincoln once said, "Right makes might."
Might indicates right. God is mightiest of all, therefore you know He is rightest of all.
I'm trying to understand why you say we cannot judge God.
Originally posted by googlefudgeI actually think we will be judging God and everyone else. When it is all revealed and we
And if you cannot judge god, how do you determine that god is right?
Pretty words devoid of meaning your statements are.
see everything that was done, and hear every word that was spoken we will bow our knees
to God and proclaim Jesus Christ is Lord, even you.
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Originally posted by KellyJayThere is not the slightest chance of that happening.
I actually think we will be judging God and everyone else. When it is all revealed and we
see everything that was done, and hear every word that was spoken we will bow our knees
to God and proclaim Jesus Christ is Lord, even you.
I bow to nobody.
Nothing worthy of worship would ask for, let alone demand it.
Therefore I worship nothing and nobody in the sure and certain knowledge that
anyone that objects is definitionally unworthy of such adoration and is indeed
my enemy.
You are utterly and completely deluded if you think there is the slightest chance
that I will ever change my mind under any possible circumstances.
Originally posted by googlefudgeIt is coming and you can say what you will now, but in the end yes you will as we all will.
There is not the slightest chance of that happening.
I bow to nobody.
Nothing worthy of worship would ask for, let alone demand it.
Therefore I worship nothing and nobody in the sure and certain knowledge that
anyone that objects is definitionally unworthy of such adoration and is indeed
my enemy.
You are utterly and completely deluded if you ...[text shortened]... here is the slightest chance
that I will ever change my mind under any possible circumstances.
The reason is our judgments are going to be He did all things well and He is worthy.
Even in this life you would behave accordingly in front of some rulers in their countries or
you'd suffer, but in the case I'm talking about it will be the right thing to do and it will be
done.
Your pride aside, when you see such adoration should be given you'd give it. This isn't
a topic for debate, you can deny it all you will, but the day is coming like it or not.
Personally, I'm looking forward to it not because of you, but because I do deem Him
worthy.
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Originally posted by SuzianneI am still waiting for you to justify your claim that there has been no moral development
No. As Abraham Lincoln once said, "Right makes might."
by humans in the last 4000 years.
Because that is an awfully big claim to make and then just pretend never happened.
http://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/spirituality/what-is-important-to-god.167842/page-6#post_3554844
"Man knows next to nothing of morality, and the last 4000 years of history haven't improved his knowledge of morality any."
Really. I'm breaking out the popcorn here because if you want to argue that human morality hasn't
improved in 4000 years you are in for one hell of an argument, which I am happy to kick off.
Lets start with slavery.
4000 years ago [and until a few hundred years ago] slavery was all the rage.
It was considered perfectly moral to own people, and indeed was considered perfectly moral by the forerunner
to Christianity which was allegedly inspired by the same god you currently claim to believe in.
This is clearly established by the bible which in the OT clearly outlines rules for HOW to morally keep slaves
and indeed how to obtain them. And backed up by the fact that absolutely nowhere in the bible is any clear
law banning keeping of slaves.
Further this idea of owning people is further enshrined in the way women are clearly and universally treated
as the property of men. First a woman is owned by her father, and then she is owned by her husband [having a
wife is not an allowed option].
Fast forward to modern day [in the west] and happily we now view slavery as abhorrent and have made it illegal
to own people and woman's rights have advanced so that women are no longer considered property of fathers and
husbands and are allowed to [for example] vote and indeed run for President of the USA.
[I am not for a moment claiming that the battle for equality and women's rights is even close to over but as a
comparison with even the relatively recent past the progress made has been astronomical]
Of course an exception to this progress in the west/USA is often to be found amongst backwards ass fundamentalist
religious peoples who still cling to ancient and backwards morality as compared to the much more advanced morality
we have developed since.
If you disagree... Do try to explain how the fact that we now regard slavery as morally wrong as opposed to
regarding it as fine in the past as NOT being an improvement in morality.
Good luck with that.