What is important to God?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
why cannot man judge god?

Is man God?

I mean, yeah, sure, I know some might think so, or at least they function as their own God, so I suppose in that way, some may think that man and God are the same.

But they're not. His ways are not our ways. We have no authority to judge God, especially by man's standards. Man's standards have been shown to be insufficient for judging God. Just take a look around. Who would you put in charge of "judging God"? There are none here sinless enough to "throw the first stone".

Originally posted by Suzianne
Is man God?

I mean, yeah, sure, I know some might think so, or at least they function as their own God, so I suppose in that way, some may think that man and God are the same.

But they're not. His ways are not our ways. We have no authority to judge God, especially by man's standards. Man's standards have been shown to be insufficient for judging G ...[text shortened]... put in charge of "judging God"? There are none here sinless enough to "throw the first stone".

Your god doesn't appear sinless either.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Is man God?

I mean, yeah, sure, I know some might think so, or at least they function as their own God, so I suppose in that way, some may think that man and God are the same.

But they're not. His ways are not our ways. We have no authority to judge God, especially by man's standards. Man's standards have been shown to be insufficient for judging G ...[text shortened]... put in charge of "judging God"? There are none here sinless enough to "throw the first stone".

Is man God?

I mean, yeah, sure, I know some might think so, or at least they function as their own God, so I suppose in that way, some may think that man and God are the same.

No, we are not gods. We don't claim to be gods, that is something you keep accusing us of without
ever giving any justification for doing so. Why don't you answer the question instead of guessing what
we think as you clearly get it wrong every single time?

But they're not. His ways are not our ways. We have no authority to judge God, especially by man's standards. Man's standards have been shown to be insufficient for judging God. Just take a look around. Who would you put in charge of "judging God"? There are none here sinless enough to "throw the first stone".

Authority... That's a might makes right argument again.

And again, as I pointed out in my last post that you are studiously ignoring YOUR GOD according to YOUR HOLY BOOK
once advocated FOR SLAVERY.

And has never clearly advocated against it.

WE puny humans are better than that and WE know that slavery is immoral.

This single point proves us more moral than your god.

And I come back to the argument I/We have made time and time again and which you have never answered.

If you cannot judge your god then you also cannot claim that your god is good.

Those two claims are mutually exclusive.

Because to know that your god is good then you must have an independent standard of good vs bad by which
your god can be judged.

Otherwise you are left defining morality merely as being "what god says it is" then you have a subjective morality
based entirely on the subjective whim of your god and would have to accept that ANYTHING your god claimed to
be moral was in fact moral.

Now I care about wellbeing. And I have seen you debating different issues and so I know that you also care about wellbeing.
Almost everyone does, because how many people DON'T want to live in as nice and safe a society as possible?

Now Sam Harris talked about wellbeing as a basis for morality like this. [I Paraphrase]

'Imagine a society that is the worst possible society for humans to live in, where existence is as bad as it's possible to be.
Any change to this society would by definition make it better.
And we can envision a 'moral landscape' with this being the lowest [worst] point on that landscape of possible societies
with the hills and mountains being better nicer societies and the valleys and trenches between being worse societies.'

Now I am going to envision a hypothetical 'best possible society' that maximises wellbeing and is better [nicer, safer,etc] than
any other possible society.

Now imagine that you lived in that society.

Your claim that morality is not about wellbeing and is instead based on the commands of god would mean that god could
dictate changes to that society that would bring it into line with gods vision of what a moral society looks like.
This would BY DEFINITION make this society worse to live in, as it was the best possible society a human could exist in
already. To be consistent with your position you would have to be completely fine with this. You must claim that you are
happy to live in a worse society** if that is what your god commands and to view that worse society as being more moral
than the best possible society. You must therefore be prepared to accept increased suffering as a moral good if your god
commands it.

That is the inevitable consequence of arguing that god cannot be judged.



**And try to push everyone else to live in it with you.

Originally posted by Suzianne

His ways are not our ways. We have no authority to judge God, .

And our ways are not his ways.
So he has no authority to judge us.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Your god doesn't appear sinless either.

And as I said, you cannot (indeed, none of us can) judge God. Your judgement shows why. You are wrong. God and sin are antipodes.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
And our ways are not his ways.
So he has no authority to judge us.

Of course he does. He created us. He also cannot abide sin, and we are full of it.

😀

Originally posted by googlefudge

Is man God?

I mean, yeah, sure, I know some might think so, or at least they function as their own God, so I suppose in that way, some may think that man and God are the same.

No, we are not gods. We don't claim to be gods, that is something you keep accusing us of without
ever giving any justification for doing so. Why don't you a ...[text shortened]... rguing that god cannot be judged.



**And try to push everyone else to live in it with you.

No. Put simply, you sin in your blasphemy, and I'm having none of it.

If you deign to preach to me about God, that is fine, but if you want me to discuss it with you, then you'll have to stop the blaspheming. Period.

Originally posted by googlefudge

Is man God?

I mean, yeah, sure, I know some might think so, or at least they function as their own God, so I suppose in that way, some may think that man and God are the same.

No, we are not gods. We don't claim to be gods, that is something you keep accusing us of without
ever giving any justification for doing so. Why don't you answ ...[text shortened]... of arguing that god cannot be judged.



**And try to push everyone else to live in it with you.

@googlefudge:

"In general I am an agnostic atheist, but I am a gnostic atheist with respect to some/many proposed gods....

But this tells you almost nothing about me as my atheism is a result of my beliefs and values and is not the
source of them.

It is a statement of the absence of belief based on blind irrational faith." (italics mine)
____________________

"Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you and your household shall be saved
[if they also choose to accept God's grace gift of salvation and eternal life].."
(Acts 16:31)
_____________

"The truth will set you free but first it will piss you off." ~M. Pancoast

Originally posted by Suzianne
Of course he does. He created us. He also cannot abide sin, and we are full of it.

😀

So your argument that knowing the ways of another precludes judging them is false.

Originally posted by Suzianne
And as I said, you cannot (indeed, none of us can) judge God. .

You haven't judged god to be good or bad and you worship him?
Is he better or worse than Satan?
(Of course you don't know because you would not judge him) 🙄

Originally posted by Suzianne
No. Put simply, you sin in your blasphemy, and I'm having none of it.

If you deign to preach to me about God, that is fine, but if you want me to discuss it with you, then you'll have to stop the blaspheming. Period.

Where the hell did I blaspheme?

And I was not 'preaching' I was making a logical argument.

Do you not understand the concept of a hypothetical?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
@googlefudge:

"In general I am an agnostic atheist, but I am a gnostic atheist with respect to some/many proposed gods....

But this tells you almost nothing about me as my atheism is a result of my beliefs and values and is not the
source of them.

It is a statement of the absence of belief based on blind ...[text shortened]... 31)
_____________

"The truth will set you free but first it will piss you off." ~M. Pancoast

GB, and I say this with feeling.

Shove it.

Take your fridge magnet wisdom elsewhere.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
@googlefudge:

"In general I am an agnostic atheist, but I am a gnostic atheist with respect to some/many proposed gods....

But this tells you almost nothing about me as my atheism is a result of my beliefs and values and is not the
source of them.

It is a statement of the absence of belief based on blind ...[text shortened]... 31)
_____________

"The truth will set you free but first it will piss you off." ~M. Pancoast

"The truth will set you free but first it will piss you off." ~M. Pancoast

LOL ! Basically.

Originally posted by Suzianne
And as I said, you cannot (indeed, none of us can) judge God. Your judgement shows why. You are wrong. God and sin are antipodes.

Sin and morality are not the same thing so you are equivocating.

Of course a god doesn't 'sin' because sinning is not doing what a god wants.

This says nothing whatsoever about gods morality.

Originally posted by sonship

"The truth will set you free but first it will piss you off." ~M. Pancoast

LOL ! Bassically.

Yes, and we say the same to you. And the conversation goes nowhere.

WE clearly piss you guys off and WE also claim the truth is on our-side.

So YAY! for pointless and stupid cookie cutter ''wisdom''.

You done with the self congratulation yet?