What is important

@KellyJay said
Yes, so hate speech directed at multitudes of people, taking things someone said, twisting it, and telling others they believe that which is not true, makes those who do that liars, living in a state of hate and strife, these are not the fruit of the Spirit scripture speaks of.

If you cannot love those you see, your profession of faith in a God you cannot see is meaning ...[text shortened]... ful like you, but God, who died for those you hate, has set a time when we will all give an account.

People like this, full of loathing, hate, and self-righteousness:


YouTube

It's hard to see what the speaker holds up in his hand--it's a crucifix.

@moonbus said
People like this, full of loathing, hate, and self-righteousness:


[youtube]oVfA4pkJ8rw[/youtube]

It's hard to see what the speaker holds up in his hand--it's a crucifix.

I have zero issues saying not everyone who claims to believe in Christ is a loving, caring person who loves the Lord and other people, so what’s your point?

@KellyJay said
I have zero issues saying not everyone who claims to believe in Christ is a loving, caring person who loves the Lord and other people, so what’s your point?

My point is this: being Christ-like is nothing to do with belief.

Welcome the stranger.
Feed the hungry.
Shelter the homeless.
Heal the sick.
Comfort the desperate.
Cast no stone at an accused adulteress; do not judge anyone.
This is what it is to be Christ-like, to behave as he behaved, to treat people as he treated people.


Now, here's what it is to be a Christian: the lists may differ slightly from one denomination to another, but they are broadly similar, namely, belief in the following five propositions:

1. The divinity of Jesus.
2. The virgin birth of Jesus.
3. In inerrancy of Scripture,
4. That Jesus sacrificed his life to atone for the sins of man.
5. That Jesus was bodily resurrected.

Some lists substitute the reality of miracles for one of the above items. There are plenty of sources for this list of the Five Fundamentals on the Internet, so I won't bother to supply a link. This is not merely my personal opinion of what a Christian is; this is how Christians themselves define what it is to be one, especially in America. (Roman Catholics, of course, have a slightly different definition, but that is another kettle of fish; they would not actually disagree with the above list.)

Now what's wrong this is? Simple: it's all about belief, nothing to do with how you treat people. Exactly the sort of people in the video to which I linked above--angry, vindictive, judgmental, highly politicized people brandishing a crucifix and declaring the end of democracy, and all the while firmly believing all of the Five Fundamentals on that list.

The most telling parable in the whole of the NT is the one in which a Roman centurian comes to Jesus and asks that Jesus heal his, the centurian's, sick servant. What does Jesus say? "I , Jesus, have healed him by a miracle", or "OK, but first you have believe these Five Fundamentals: 1. the inerrancy of scrpture, 2. I was born of a virgin ..."

--no, nothing of the sort. He says to the Roman, your faith, the faith of a pagan, has healed him. That Roman soldier believed not one of the Five Fundamentals; he had no knowledge of scripture, no belief that Jesus would later die for his sins, and he certainly was not a Christian (there was no such religion then). In that parable, you have the very essence of what it is to be Christ-like, and not what it is to be a Christian: the Roman was a man of rank and power, and yet he humbled himself to ask a favor of a humble carpenter's son, a favor not for himself, but for his humble servant, to help the sick.

Now, tell me what you think of those people at the Christian Political Action Committee, brandishing a crucifix , declaring the end of democracy, and hell-bent on re-electing a dictator whose first act in office was to cancel desperately needed US foreign aid. Are they Christ-like? And how does the Evangelicals' idol, Donald Trump, actually treat people? Is he Christ-like, in your opinion?

@moonbus said
My point is this: being Christ-like is nothing to do with belief.

Welcome the stranger.
Feed the hungry.
Shelter the homeless.
Heal the sick.
Comfort the desperate.
Cast no stone at an accused adulteress; do not judge anyone.
This is what it is to be Christ-like, to behave as he behaved, to treat people as he treated people.


Now, here's what it is ...[text shortened]... oes the Evangelicals' idol, Donald Trump, actually treat people? Is he Christ-like, in your opinion?

You have a to-do list, so you have no clue what you're talking about, since you can do the to-do on your list, and if you miss Christ, it will not matter.

@KellyJay said
You have a to-do list, so you have no clue what you're talking about, since you can do the to-do on your list, and if you miss Christ, it will not matter.

Can't answer a simple question, can you? What do you think of those people at the CPAC conference who believe all five of the Fundamentals and therefore fulfill the Christians' own definition of what a Christian is?


I guess you already know what I think of them.

@KellyJay said
Personally, I think much of what God does and allows is to reveal what we are. A thief will steal given the opportunity, and an adulterer will be unfaithful given the opportunity. So the bad and good things in life reveal what we are, so God doesn’t worry about the material world hardly at all; it is temporal, while we are eternal beings. This world will pass away, and every ...[text shortened]... hose in danger. How we approach life matters, the end matters, and what we put our faith in matters.

Back on topic:

"For the Christian, the most important thing in life is the leaving of it."
--Bishop Norman

Comment?

@moonbus said
Back on topic:

"For the Christian, the most important thing in life is the leaving of it."
--Bishop Norman

Comment?

I disagree; the most important thing in life is having our mortal life swallowed up by life.

2 Corinthians 5:4
For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.

@moonbus said
Can't answer a simple question, can you? What do you think of those people at the CPAC conference who believe all five of the Fundamentals and therefore fulfill the Christians' own definition of what a Christian is?


I guess you already know what I think of them.

It only matters that you have a good relationship with Jesus Christ; you can believe whatever you want, do whatever you feel is right, but, in the end, if you miss Him, you’ll hear, "Depart from me, I never knew you."

@KellyJay said
I disagree; the most important thing in life is having our mortal life swallowed up by life.

2 Corinthians 5:4
For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.

A noted and published bishop states what the most important thing in life is, and you disagree with him. That makes you a heretic.

The order of priority was established 2,000 years ago, 300 years before the canon was established. The canon is in third place, behind bishops.

@KellyJay said
It only matters that you have a good relationship with Jesus Christ; you can believe whatever you want, do whatever you feel is right, but, in the end, if you miss Him, you’ll hear, "Depart from me, I never knew you."

Dodge noted.

@moonbus said
Dodge noted.

You cannot even see the Kingdom of God without the Spirit of God, blind eyes noted.

@moonbus said
A noted and published bishop states what the most important thing in life is, and you disagree with him. That makes you a heretic.

The order of priority was established 2,000 years ago, 300 years before the canon was established. The canon is in third place, behind bishops.

I quoted scripture; you quoted a man. I’ll take my chances with scripture; you can believe whatever other people tell you, especially when you pick and choose the ones you like and dislike. What could go wrong?

@KellyJay said
It only matters that you have a good relationship with Jesus Christ; you can believe whatever you want, do whatever you feel is right, but, in the end, if you miss Him, you’ll hear, "Depart from me, I never knew you."

; you can believe whatever you want,

"Though you can believe what you choose, you must believe what you ought."

-- Cardinal Newman


What say you to that?

@moonbus said
; you can believe whatever you want,

"Though you can believe what you choose, you must believe what you ought."

-- Cardinal Newman


What say you to that?

You have an "OUGHT" tell me, is that something we decide for ourselves, or is it because the truth doesn't depend on us.

@KellyJay said
I quoted scripture; you quoted a man. I’ll take my chances with scripture; you can believe whatever other people tell you, especially when you pick and choose the ones you like and dislike. What could go wrong?

Nay, tis not I who does this. This has been official Christian doctrine since before the NT was even written down. The Apostles taught the first bishops, and the bishops taught other bishops, and the bishops , 300 years later, decided which scrolls to canonize and which ones to burn.