What is Rajk lacking?

@Rajk999

How do you know. Maybe they are listening and disagreeing.

Either way, the WHEN of the judgment of Matthew 25:31-46 is not the final judgment.

@sonship said
@Rajk999

How do you know. Maybe they are listening and disagreeing.

Either way, the WHEN of the judgment of Matthew 25:31-46 is not the final judgment.

The WHEN of the judgment is not the same as the judgment of the great white throne. The two judgments are separated by at least one thousand years.

The Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory at the beginning of the millennium - at the commencement of the restoration.

The judgment of the great white throne (the last judgment) is after the thousand years have been completed (Rev. 20:1,3,4,5,6,7)

After verse 7 about the conclusion of the thousand years reign THEN John saw the last judgment in 20:11,12

"And I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose face earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. (v.11)
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne ..." (v.12a)

Now WHO are those being judged in Matthew 25:31-46

People from nations called SHEEP on His right hand.
People from nations called GOATS on His left hand.

"And all the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

And He will set the sheep on His right hand and the goats on His left."

Now in Matthew 25:31-46 besides the sheep on Christ's right and the goats on His left, there is another group mentioned -

These, down to the least of them the brothers of the Lord Jesus.

But the Lord only mentions TWO groups being judged - sheep and goats. These means that the brothers of the Lord have either already been judged or are awaiting it in another judgment.

Because they are His brothers, down to the least, the relationship proves that they have already been approved of. The "THESE" about whom Jesus examines how they were treated by the sheep and the goats have already been judged somewhere else.

What are the alternatives?

Could the "the least of these My brothers" be scattered among the sheep on the right hand? I say no. Otherwise the Lord would say that on His left are the sheep AND His brothers down to the least of them. He only says on His right are the sheep.

Could "the least of these My brothers" be scattered among the goats on the left hand? I say no. Otherwise the Lord would have said that on His left hand were the goats AND the least of these His brothers.

So "the least of these My brothers" is somewhere in the picture. But they are not half mixed with the sheep and the goats. It doesn't say where they are physically in relationship to Christ on His throne.

But we may be assured that they are either with Him or so associated with Him as to be virtually present. I say the overcomers are WITH Him for they accompanied Him down previously to the battle of Armageddon. (Rev. 19:11-16)

They are there perhaps behind Him. But they are the focal point of Christ's judgment of the sheep and the goats. HOW did they of the nations treat these, the least of them His brothers, is the deciding factor of the destiny of the sheep and the goats.

@sonship said
Because this heretic Rajk999 has no way to refute these facts he has to resort to ad homs and name calling.

Let the heretic get the name calling, ad homs, and threats out of his system.

Now we go back. Two groups we are told WHERE they are. One group we are not told WHERE they are but they are important to the judgment of the ones that we know where they are.

There are other reasons why the least of these My brothers could not be among the sheep of the goats.

if they were with the goats, they being brothers would be damned.
That makes no sense.

Say that they are with the goats as the Lord's brothers but are not to be sent to the eternal fire. In that case don't you think the Lord will transfer them from that crowd on the left and tell them to be on His right?

He would have another separation GOATS from His brothers down the least of them - ALL on His left hand.

Could "the least of these My brothers" be on the right with the sheep? That would take care of the problem of them ALL being saved. However it would not make sense that if they were imprisoned and persecuted and sick and naked and suffering such that they would have had opportunity to do anything but be recipients of mercy.

A better understanding is the "the least of these My brothers" are a distinct group. They are with Christ, or at least a representative number are with Christ, but not on His right hand or left hand as the sheep and the goats.

It is best to understand that when Jesus refers to "THESE" down to the least of them, His brothers, that He is referring to another group perhaps BEHIND Him whom He leads.

Joel's prophecy tells us that Jesus descends with His holy ones in the last days. And I don't think there it means His angels. Or it is not restricted to His angels but refers to His army of overcoming saints qualified to accompany Him in His dramatic conquest of Antichrist and his armies in the Holy Land.

"Hurry and come, All you surrounding nations, And be gathered;

There CAUSE YOUR MIGHTY ONES TO DESCEND, O Jehovah!

Let the the nations rouse themselves and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat.

For there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations." (Joel 3:11,12)

@sonship said

THESE are "the least of these My brothers" standing somewhere with Christ but not with the goats and sheep on His right and left hand.

@rajk999 said
You are such a deluded goat. The sheep are Jesus's brothers. The sheep hear Christ, they know Christ, Christ knows them, they follow Christ.

[i]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; ...[text shortened]... ts and get eternal life in the New Jerusalem
- goats who disobey the commandments and are cast out.

@kellyjay said
Yes, Jesus sorted the sheep from the goats before the judgment of works started. In another place in Matthew Jesus cast out those that didn't know Him, even though they claimed to have good works. Their works didn't help them.

@rajk999 said
Here we have another crooked liar. nowhere did Jesus ever condemn anyone who did good works. You no doubt refer to the Matt 7 case of the Lord Lord Christians who did WONDERFUL WORKS of miracles etc etc.

Jesus called them WORKERS OF INIQUITY. Using Gods power of the Holy Spirit to do miracles, cast out devils and heal people is NOT GOOD WORKS. This is a mistake you chur ...[text shortened]... good about it. You are a idiot to constantly and willfully misinterpret these statements of Christ.

I am speaking to an interpretation of Matthew 25:31-46.

The facts up to this point I do not see disputed are:

1.) This judgment is NOT the final judgment, the last judgment.

2.) This judgment is of people physically LIVING from the Gentile nations at the time Christ comes at the beginning of the millennial kingdom. They are not the dead, great and small as in Rev. 20.

3.) The apparent determining factor of the judgment of those "sheep" set on His right hand and those "goats" set on His left hand if a THIRD group whose physical position we are not told.

They are "the least of these My brothers".

I don't see, and I don't think this logic up to this point can be refuted.
RJHinds, I think, gave a good counter argument once. It was not good enough IMO. But it was a good effort. The debate is probably still stored on a distant page of this Forum going back over six or eight years.

I think I presented the logic better this time then at that time.

Boo hoo, no one is reading. O well.

The last judgment is of all the dead. That is not Matthew 25:31-46

The last judgment the earth and sky are fled away from the face of the Judge. That seems not to be the case in Matthew 25:31-46. They are not suspended in space or mid air. If Joel is the relevant prophecy, they are in "the valley of Jehoshaphat" in the Holy Land. I am told that it is a huge valley.

It is not necessary that every Gentile on the planet at that time is here in this judgment. It could mean those in that area in the Holy Land at the time of Christ's touching down again on the earth.

The word nations is elsewhere translated Gentiles.
And the immediate preceding time was the great tribulation.
Therefore we know from Revelation this event is anterior to the terrible reign of the Antichrist.

Antichrist seeks to make himself God and puts down every object of worship or anything called god. He will not allow those under his reign to buy or sell unless they worship him as God.

For this we have to be familiar with the book of Revelation.
I'll probably say more about this latter.

Because Rajk999 has no good counter arguments on these points, expect only that he will foam out threats of damnation to me and ad homs or taunts that no one is paying attention.

You are going to have to not confuse my responses to some responses of others. We may not be saying exactly the same thing.

The three and one half years of the great tribulation are a transitional time. The age is changing. And the dispensation of that transitional time is not exactly the same as through the age of the Gospel preached by the church. This is sovereign of God.

For one, the rule of Antichrist, his supernatural displays and pressure make the church age gospel preaching extremely difficult. Maybe during that time it might even be hard for people to lay hold of a Bible.

But this last two sentences are my own opinion based on things I have been taught. Antichrist will be a man given the authority of Satan who will directly challenge God completely and even physically when Christ descends.

Revelation 14 says that at that time "an eternal gospel" to fear God the Creator will be announced supernaturally by an angel in the sky.

"And I saw another angel flying in mid heaven, having an eternal gospel to announce to those dwelling on the earth, even to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,

Saying with a loud voice [an angel's voice] Fear God and give Him glory because the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him WHO MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH and the sea and the springs of water." (Rev. 14:6-7)

An extraordinarily powerful Antichrist and his False Prophet are demanding that Antichrist is god, upon pain of starvation, and persecution, and imprisonment, and death.

And from the sky, supernaturally, the eternal good news that God alone is the Creator is announced supernaturally by an angel. To some unbelieving and unrepentant earth dwellers it may just sound like thunder. Others HEAR the divine warning.

Revelation says that during that time from the throne of God will come loud voices and thunders. (Rev. 8:5; 11:19)

The following is my opinion today. No one taught it to me. But in John when a voice from heaven spoke, some in the crowd said that they heard an ANGEL. Others said they only heard the sound of THUNDER. (See John 12:28-30 ).

"Father, glorify Your name. Then a voice came out of heaven: I have glorified it and will glorify it again.

The crowd therefore which stood by and heard it said that there had been thunder; others said, An angel has spoken to Him.

Jesus answered and said, This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sake." (John 12:28-30)

@sonship said
Boo hoo, no one is reading. O well.