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Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE, not THREE in ONE. Just ONE.
Use a proof.
See it refuted.
Wait a while.
Use the "proof" again.
These cycles of repeated defeated arguments don't do anything but show stubbornness on somebody's part.
The prayer of Deuteronomy 6:4-9 doesn't prove that there is no three-oneness of God in the Bible.
The word for "one" there, YACHID , may also be used to indicate a composite unity.
1.) For example the same word is used in Exodus 26:6 concerning various parts of the tabernacle. "It shall be one [echad] tabernacle".
2.) For example the same word is used in Ezekiel 37:19 concerning two representing fragmented Israel. They two sticks would become one in the hand of the prophet as a sign of the oneness of Israel in the hand of God - "and they shall be one [echad] stick in My hand."
3.) For example Moses used echad to speak of Genesis 2:24 concerning the oneness of the husband and wife. "And they (husband and wife) will become one flesh"
basar echad = "one flesh".
@sonship saidYou made a comment.
@Rajk999Is this the first time that I have told you that you twist passages in the bible?
Have I not identified many many passages that you twist?
No.
You were unable to demonstrate twisting. You could not indicate twisting of ANY verse in the Bible by me.
I said you are twisting the bible.
You ask what you are twisting.
The answer is in your comment.
Did you read it?
Paul says there is NO INHERITANCE for some born-again Christian Saints.. Here is one of many of those statements by Paul
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Ephesians 5:3-5 KJV)
For you to attempt to change NO INHERITANCE into some kind of inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and of God, means that you are twisting the bible.
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Paul says there is NO INHERITANCE for some born-again Christian Saints.. Here is one of many of those statements by Paul
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Ephesians 5:3-5 KJV)
For you to attempt to change NO INHERITANCE into some kind of inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and of God, means that you are twisting the bible.
Having "no inheritance" in the kingdom of God FOR THE CHRISTIAN can only be a temporary matter. The Christian who is saved yet suffers loss may have no inheritance in the coming kingdom of God.
Yet because the Bible says of such a one - "but he shall be saved, yet so as through fire" his exclusion from the inheriting the kingdom of God has to be dispensational and temporary.
The kingdom of Christ and of God is ETERNAL -
" ... the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ ..." ( 1 Peter 1:11)
If the Christian who losses a reward and suffers loss is STILL SAVED, then at some future time AFTER his discipline he MUST enter into "the eternal kingdom".
Are you suggesting that when the believer is still saved he is forever excluded from inheriting the eternal kingdom ?
At most he cannot inherit the kingdom of God for 1,000 years.
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@sonship saidThere you have it. Bible twisting.
@Rajk999
[quote] Paul says there is NO INHERITANCE for some born-again Christian Saints.. Here is one of many of those statements by Paul
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye k ...[text shortened]... inheriting the eternal kingdom ?
At most he cannot inherit the kingdom of God for 1,000 years.
Paul said no inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and of God [BOTH]
- The Kingdom of Christ [ie the 1000 yr reign]
- The Kingdom of God [ the eternal Kingdom / New Jerusalem]
NONE, NO INHERITANCE
Paul was smart enough to clearly state BOTH KINGDOMS, because he know deceitful bible twisters like you would come along. These sinful Christians will be excluded from BOTH.
Of course there is a group that will be saved through fire, but that is another group of Christians clearly specified. The evil Christians who defile themselves will be DESTROYED, and will get no inhertiance in either the 1000 yr reign or the eternal Kingdom of God as Paul clearly states.
Sonship, you and Secondson are disgusting, sickening, lying pieces of garbage.
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There you have it. Bible twisting.
Your shortsightedness is not someone else's twisting of Scripture. You are just shortsighted concerning the larger picture.
Paul said no inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and of God [BOTH]
- The Kingdom of Christ [ie the 1000 yr reign]
- The Kingdom of God [ the eternal Kingdom / New Jerusalem]
NONE, NO INHERITANCE
Six times in Revelation 20 it mentions a kingdom of one thousand years.
1.) "... and bound him [Satan] for a thousand years " (20:2)
2.) " deceive the nations no longer until the thousand years were completed." (v.3)
3.) "... and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." (v.4)
4.) " the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousands years were completed." (v.5)
5.) "they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years" (v.6)
6.) "And when the thousand years are completed ..." (v.7)
One thousand years is a section of the kingdom of God.
It is COMPLETED (verse 7). The specific span of TIME of one thousand years is "completed" .
The time of Christ awarding rewards or disciplining the saints is during this temporary section of His eternal kingdom. When this span of time is "completed" there will be no saints of left immature, in need of discipline, in need of perfecting. All will have been perfected.
To miss the co-reigning with Christ during this span of a thousand years is to miss the reward, to suffer loss. Since such are still saved yet so as through fire, their exclusion from this reward is temporary.
The statement is still true that they did not inherit the kingdom of God (while in that state needing deeper sanctification).
@sonship saidOh, of course you are correct how could I, and Paul, and Jesus, and Peter, and James and John all be so blind. Thanks for your interpretation. You and Witness Lee are truly blessed.
@Rajk999There you have it. Bible twisting.
Your shortsightedness is not someone else's twisting of Scripture. You are just shortsighted concerning the larger picture.
[quote]
Paul said no inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and of God [BOTH]
- The Kingdom of Christ [ie the 1000 yr reign]
- The Kingdom of God [ the eternal Kingdom / New Jeru ...[text shortened]... ue that they did not inherit the kingdom of God (while in that state needing deeper sanctification).
@sonship saidThis is good, and there are so many more issues those who reject the Triune nature of God have to deal with. For example, Jesus was the Son of man, the Son of God and some here want to suggest at the same time He was also the Father and the Holy Spirit!?
@divegeesterHear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE, not THREE in ONE. Just ONE.
Use a proof.
See it refuted.
Wait a while.
Use the "proof" again.
These cycles of repeated defeated arguments don't do anything but show stubbornness on somebody's part.
The prayer of Deuteronomy 6:4-9 doesn't prove that there is no three-on ...[text shortened]... "And they (husband and wife) will become one flesh"[/b]
basar echad = "one flesh".
So Father why have you rejected me, is God talking to Himself rejecting Himself, or Jesus emptied Himself to become a man to be tempted in all points like us, except at the same time He was walking around leading Himself as the Holy Spirit to be tempted like us while still being God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit? Why go through all of the trouble while Jesus was being baptized to appear in three different ways all at the same time, since Jesus was in the water, if He is also the Father He was also speaking to Himself out of heaven saying this is My Son in Whom I am well pleased, while at the same time descending upon Himself like a dove as the Holy Spirit?
@SecondSon
Is there anyone here with even the slightest amount of integrity able to get on track with the question posed in the OP?
This thread is about the difference between grace and mercy.
@secondson saidIts your thread.
@SecondSon
Is there anyone here with even the slightest amount of integrity able to get on track with the question posed in the OP?
This thread is about the difference between grace and mercy.
Make a comment or ask an intelligent question.
You are a dummy trying to insult people like me.
This is good, and there are so many more issues those who reject the Triune nature of God have to deal with. For example, Jesus was the Son of man, the Son of God and some here want to suggest at the same time He was also the Father and the Holy Spirit!?
So Father why have you rejected me, is God talking to Himself rejecting Himself, or Jesus emptied Himself to become a man to be tempted in all points like us, except at the same time He was walking around leading Himself as the Holy Spirit to be tempted like us while still being God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit? Why go through all of the trouble while Jesus was being baptized to appear in three different ways all at the same time, since Jesus was in the water, if He is also the Father He was also speaking to Himself out of heaven saying this is My Son in Whom I am well pleased, while at the same time descending upon Himself like a dove as the Holy Spirit?
To some extent you may be talking about me. (To some extent)
I believe He is the Father.
And I believe He is the Holy Spirit.
The word theologians use coinherance means that one lives in the other. It is unexaplainable by our limited human language. But in each one of the trinity one lives in the other. The coinherance of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit means that they live within each other.
They are always involved in each other. The actions of one involve the other two. This does lead to some paradoxes.
"Well, did Jesus lead Himself out into the wilderness?"
"Well, did the Father die on the cross?"
These are not easy to explain. But the utterance of the word of God itself should not be denied for the sake of us trying to explain.
The Son is called the Eternal Father in Isaiah 9:6.
I will not deny Isaiah 9:6 because I don't believe the Father died on the cross. It never says the Father died on the cross.
But it DOES say "a son is given ... His name shall be called ... eternal Father" .
I would rather bear the delimma of not being able to comprehend fully or explain then deny that the Son is called the eternal Father.
The Lord is the Spirit, so says 2 Cor. 3:17.
I would not say Jesus led Himself into the wilderness.
But I will not spare myself the dilemma of also believe "Now the Lord is the Spirit".
I would rather bear have the delimma of not being able to explain then deny that "the Lord is the Spirit" or "the son given ... called eternal Father" .
I trust what the Bible tells us. Besides, we can detect no separation when receive the Father - Son - Holy Spirit in being born of God.
@sonship saidThey are One in complete harmony, but they are “they” in One. The Father is not the Son, or the Holy Spirit, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, they are One God. Jesus Christ could say when you see Me you see the Father, and tell us the Father loves Him and He the Father. Jesus when glorified sent the Holy Spirit to us to teach us about Christ, and the Spirit would not be speaking about Himself. Jesus said the things we say about Him we can be forgiven but what we say about the Holy Spirit we will not be.
@KellyJay
[quote] This is good, and there are so many more issues those who reject the Triune nature of God have to deal with. For example, Jesus was the Son of man, the Son of God and some here want to suggest at the same time He was also the Father and the Holy Spirit!?
So Father why have you rejected me, is God talking to Himself rejecting Himself, or Jesus emptied ...[text shortened]... sides, we can detect no separation when receive the Father - Son - Holy Spirit in being born of God.
The nature of God is difficult for us, this should not be a surprise!
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I am sorry for distracting from an OP of the thread. But I feel these accusations need some response.
Sonship, you and Secondson are disgusting, sickening, lying pieces of garbage.
Rajk999 has his emotional opinion on that. But the biblical substance of Rajk999's problems are examined.
Paul said no inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and of God [BOTH]
I never said that there was a difference such that "both" is significant.
The issue is that to the Christians under discipline - no inheritance in the kingdom has to be a temporary punishment. It cannot be an eternal punishment.
In between the church age and the eternal age is an age of 1,000 years.
God is wise alright. He knew that if He dispenses grace some saved will take it as a cheap thing and some will not. So before eternity begins He established the INCENTIVE of the millennial kingdom for reward or discipline to those who are eternally saved.
The warnings of not inheriting the kingdom of God TO Christians to whom the epistles of Ephesians, Galatians, and First Corinthians were addressed are warned of this coming discipline.
I teach as I have been persuaded.
"If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward.
If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:14,15)
For believing and teaching this Rajk999 says I am "disgusting, sickening, lying pieces of garbage. "
It is disgusting and sickening to Rajk999 that the New Testament says:
1.) "he [a Christian] will receive a reward" and
2.) "he [a Christian] will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved yet so as through fire."
This is sickening and disgusting for some reason, to Rajk999.
He is sickened that to not inherit the kingdom of God or the kingdom of Christ and of God could be a matter of dispensational punishment to the saved.
In other words the exclusion from the enjoyment of the said kingdom would be temporary.
But let's look at the EXAMPLE in one of the parables of Jesus about His second coming. In short, cutting to the main point, the unforgiving servant is punished UNTIL a certain time.
"And his master became angry and delivered him to the torturers until he would repay all that was owed. So also will My heavenly Father do to you if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart." ( Matt. 18:34,35)
Let's not miss the point. The point here is NOT that this is the ONLY and SOLE reason Christ might discipline a defeated follower. This is just a representative example of a failure. So do not let Rajk999 distract from the main point.
The main point here is that the punished servant's time is [b]"UNTIL" something which has to be feasible. He is taught a lesson or repays what was owed in terms of overcoming his old unforgiving ways.
Since the punishment is temporary and since the punishment appears to pertain to the time of the Lord's second coming, it is in that intervening time of the 1,000 kingdom. He is not eternally punished. He is punished "until he would repay all that was owed."
A supporting text to this concept of dispensation punishment is in Matthew 5:25,26.
" Be well disposed quickly toward your opponent at law, while you are with him on the way, lest the opponent deliver you to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.
Truly I say to you, You shall by no means come out from there until you pay the last quadrans."
The disciplined servant will be released. He will not UNTIL something. If he pays sooner, it appears he will be sooner released. But he will not be released from the prison until he pays what is owed.
The words "while you are with him on the way" means while you are in the age of grace, in the church age on the way to the kingdom age. The millennial kingdom commencing with the second coming of Christ. The opponent must be a a fellow Christian. The judge is the Lord Jesus. The officer must be the angels. The prison for punishment during the millennial kingdom age where some will "suffer loss".
For length's sake I stop here.