@philokalia saidI don't believe in "immortal souls" and I don't believe in "eternal suffering". What would be the moral purpose of tormenting me in burning flames for eternity for not believing in these things and for not sharing your personal beliefs about them?
Sure, the argument that you have an immortal soul would be different from the point of eternal suffering, though.
@philokalia saidI did have a look. I thought it was spammy and uninteresting. It seemed like a page from the songbook for singing to your choir in your collective echo chamber.
There was a good thread about why the failure to love God and to act on behalf of God can constitute evil -- it's actually not yet closed off yet, so you could revive it if you want to discuss the topic.
I am not "failing to love God" and I am not "failing to act on behalf of God".
"Evil" is a term that applies to actions and interactions between human beings.
In my life, it has nothing whatsoever to do with angels, demons and deities ~ and a mythology that ties them all together in some magical narrative ~ that just so happens to appeal to your imagination.
@philokalia saidNot at all. I think you are floundering. You might as well be Dasa warning me that I am going to be reincarnated as a cockroach if I don't start thinking his religion is "true". It's quite interesting. I am not feeling frustrated at all.
You may be feeling frustrated.
@fmf saidWow, you typed more than just a few lines there! We are really getting a real back-and-forth going.
The judge puts him in gaol.
The gaol exists. It was built by the same entity that appointed the judge.
The law exists. It was passed by the same entity that appointed the judge and passed the law and built the gaol.
The crime was committed. The government apprehends the criminal, prosecutes him, and puts him in the gaol that it built.
The God figure in your ideolo ...[text shortened]... and a real punishment that we both know exist DO create moral and legal imperatives for both of us.
So, FMF, isn't it true that the principles which govern our countries (the laws) are absolutely necessary for keeping order?
It all exists for a very good reason, correct?
The cosmic order which we have also exists for a good reason: we have immortal souls, and our relationship to goodness and to God is a very important aspect of them. We can choose to seek self-improvement and prepare to meet our God who is above, or we can ignore these things and alienate ourselves from Him.
This is what effectively amounts to damning ourselves.
God exists, and eternity exists, and by necessity of who we are, our immortal soul exists within this eternity.
Our relationship with God will affect where we go in this eternity.
Criminals send themselves to jail through breaking laws -- and, likewise, people send themselves to hell through their own actions.
This law, and judge, and gaol, and punishment that you imagine exist create no moral or 'legal' imperatives for me.
It has never mattered whether or not someone believes in the law.
It only matters that they are subject to the law.
A real government, a real law, a real judge, a real gaol and a real punishment that we both know exist DO create moral and legal imperatives for both of us.
And they are an imperfect reflection of eternity.
@fmf saidI believe this is the seventh time that you have referred to that someone. ^^
That's a bit rich coming from you. You enjoyed - and touted as the forum-posting-at-its-best - the thousands of obscene paedophilia-themed posts and sexual slurs against spouses of posters in 2018 - by someone trying to be funny - when it suited your unprincipled partisan purposes.
@fmf saidOK, I think we are nearing the end because there isn't really any content directly relevant to the discussion about suffering and the morality of hell.
I did have a look. I thought it was spammy and uninteresting. It seemed like a page from the songbook for singing to your choir in your collective echo chamber.
I am not "failing to love God" and I am not "failing to act on behalf of God".
"Evil" is a term that applies to actions and interactions between human beings.
In my life, it has nothing whatsoever to do with a ...[text shortened]... es them all together in some magical narrative ~ that just so happens to appeal to your imagination.
-Removed-If you mean 'point' as in it is a process moving towards an end, there is no point.
If you mean 'point' as in the reason behind it, then it is people who have consciously rejected God (that also have immortal souls) being separated from the God that they chose to reject, and the fruits of this is what the authors of the Bible call the outer darkness.
@philokalia saidYour belief that your speculation about a creator being creates a valid or coherent moral justification for torturing me in burning flames for eternity ~ because I don't believe it too ~ is an extraordinary bit of narcissism, which only adds to how preposterous it all sounds.
If you mean 'point' as in the reason behind it, then it is people who have consciously rejected God (that also have immortal souls) being separated from the God that they chose to reject, and the fruits of this is what the authors of the Bible call the outer darkness.
Your ideology feeds you with ridiculously manmade-sounding "arguments" and moral assertions.
You actually believe your ideas are inspired by a supernatural being?