What shall we talk about now?

Originally posted by @sonship
Here's something you can explain to me.

After the 1,000 YEARS of millennial reign on earth men who lived through the unbelievably blessed time will STILL rebel and join Satan.

Disease, sickness, shortage of food, and other things plaguing mankind will have been eliminated during that one thousand years. Men will see the blessedness of Christ reigning ...[text shortened]... ot be convinced of the goodness of God's heart after one thousand years of plenty and blessing ?

You are mistaken. Not everyone will be unbelievably blessed in the rule of Christ.. hence the rebellion.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Presumably for the same reason that (your version of) Jesus will be observing the eternal suffering of billions of people in fiery flesh-melting agony while he supernaturally keeps them alive forever in the hell that he has created.

I.e. because its all symbolic.

What is this symbolic OF?

" And the smoke of their tormenting goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." (Rev. 14:11)

What do you say this symbolism points to ?
Please answer that question and not another.

Does "no rest day or night" symbolize the state of non-existence and oblivion ,ie. like people who have not been born yet ?

Originally posted by @rajk999
You are mistaken. Not everyone will be unbelievably blessed in the rule of Christ.. hence the rebellion.

Possibly. Let's consider it carefully.

So you say that this large crowd of people at the end of the millennium did not partake of the blessings on the earth at that time ?

"And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison.

And will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. Their number is like that of the sand of the sea." (Rev. 20:7,8)

Concerning the millennium it says that the knowledge of the Lord will be as the waters cover the sea.

"For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of Jehovah as water covers the sea." (Habakkuk 2:14)

So you are saying that through that time or by the END of that period a myriads of inhabitants living through those days will not know the glory of the Lord which is filling the whole earth ?

Elaborate on your understanding of this.
Maybe I'll end up agreeing... maybe.

Multitudes from the four corners of the earth at the end of the millennium will be "deceived" by the loosed Satan because THEY ... did not KNOW the Divine glory which was filling the earth and did not partake of ANY blessing derived from Christ's reign over nature and the earth ?

Originally posted by @sonship
What is this symbolic OF?
" And the smoke of their tormenting goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." (Rev. 14:11)

What do you say this symbolism points to ?

It is symbolic as a default, in that the entire doctrine built upon it being literal is an abomination of the highest order and worse than anything the worst terrorists can do. Worse than beheading people in the street in front of their families, worse than raping children to death, worse than crashing aircraft into buildings, worse than capturing airforce pilots and burning them to death in cages, worse than the Nazi holocaust, in fact worse than all of the entire crimes of the entire human race since time began.

That’s why it’s sybolic. If it’s not sybolic then it is just wrong. But whatever it is, it is NOT what you claim it to be which is an abomination.

Originally posted by @divegeester

It is symbolic as a default,

What does this mean ... " it is symbolic as a default " ?
You have not told me yet what you think the symbols point to.

in that the entire doctrine built upon it being literal is an abomination of the highest order and worse than anything the worst terrorists can do.

You have expressed your emotional revulsion about something.
I don't see WHAT you have indicated the hated symbolism "by default" (whatever that means) is symbolic OF.

"I hate it!
I hate it!
I hate it!
Its an abomination!!"

I've got your feeling in that regard.
I don't like it either.
What is being pointed TO symbolically?

Nonexistence ?
Unbeing?
Anhilation into nothingness of non- being of any kind?

How much you hate the symbolism is not what I am asking about.
The referent of the symbolism ... the writer is referring to what ?

]
Worse than beheading people in the street in front of their families,

Still more appeal to emotional revulsion.
Still not clear indication of WHAT the "default" symbolism is pointing TO.

Can you tell me what you think the symbolism points to?

worse than raping children to death, worse than crashing aircraft into buildings, worse than capturing airforce pilots and burning them to death in cages, worse than the Nazi holocaust, in fact worse than all of the entire crimes of the entire human race since time began.

More appeal to emotional revulsion.
"No rest day or night" points to what ?

That’s why it’s [symbolic]. If it’s not [symbolic] then it is just wrong. But whatever it is, it is NOT what you claim it to be which is an abomination.

The punished people to whom the verse refers are worshippers of Satan and his Antichrist. They behead those who will not join them. They cast into prison those who will not join them. They forbid those who do not have the mark of Antichrist or his number to buy in order that they may eat.

When given a chance to repent of their evils their response was blasphemy against God all the more (Revelation 16:9,11).

"And men were burned with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has the authority over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory." (16:9)

"And blasphemed the God of heaven for their pains and for their sores, and they did not repent of their works." (v.11)

It sounds to me like they would thrust you aside and complain that they are getting just what they want - they WILL NOT honor God.
It looks like in spite of all their pains they are kind of enjoying the RUSH of not submitting to God period.

That is what the specific passage and its context reveal to me.

They are losing something. But they are getting something that is apparently of the utmost value to them at least - the freedom to totally blaspheme and reject God.

Now again, what specifically is the symbolism pointing TO in Revelation 14:10,11.

If you are consistent then I expect you to say it points to them passing out of existence into non-existence of annhilation ... obliteration into total non-being.

Is that what the symbolism points to WHETHER or not it is right to you or not ?

Saying I am a bad person is not the answer to my question.

Originally posted by @sonship

It is symbolic as a default,

What does this mean ... " it is symbolic as a default " ?
You have not told me yet what you think the symbols point to.

in that the entire doctrine built upon it being literal is an abomination of the highest order and worse than anything the worst terrorists can do.

You have expressed ...[text shortened]... or not it is right to you or not ?

Saying I am a bad person is not the answer to my question.

A classic example of one of your waffley posts sonship.

Originally posted by @sonship

It is symbolic as a default,

What does this mean ... " it is symbolic as a default " ?
You have not told me yet what you think the symbols point to.

in that the entire doctrine built upon it being literal is an abomination of the highest order and worse than anything the worst terrorists can do.

You have expressed ...[text shortened]... or not it is right to you or not ?

Saying I am a bad person is not the answer to my question.

Could you explain this rant in one sentence please?

Originally posted by @sonship
Saying I am a bad person is not the answer to my question.

Who said this?!

This is classic sonship, half a page of waffle and rant and obfuscation punctuated by this comment.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Who said this?!

This is classic sonship, half a page of waffle and rant and obfuscation punctuated by this comment.

You actually read through that garbage? Props.

Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem
[youtube What shall we talk about?]P3DLQZ1v0ms[/youtube]

haha! Nice.

Originally posted by @avalanchethecat
You actually read through that garbage? Props.

skimmed

Originally posted by @sonship
Possibly. Let's consider it carefully.

So you say that this large crowd of people at the end of the millennium did not partake of the blessings on the earth at that time ?

[quote] [b] "And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison.

And will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the eart ...[text shortened]... arth and did not partake of ANY blessing derived from Christ's reign over nature and the earth ?

The benefactors in the reign of Christ are the elect and others who choose to follow the commandments of Christ. The elect will be immortal and will rule with Christ. The righteous nations will live in peace and harmony, but there will be a group who will oppose the rule of God.

To get the whole picture about these events you need to piece together the descriptions of all the prophets and not just think that Revelation has it all. Zechariah says that those who do not submit to Christ will not receive rain. This means famine and drought for those. Do you think that these people will be blessed?

As usual ... the whole story ... read the whole thing. Avoid the interpretations of one man. Use your judgment because your claim that all people will be living happy lives is clearly not the case.

This happy life for all story is for the end of the millennium when the New Jerusalem comes.

Originally posted by @rajk999

The benefactors in the reign of Christ are the elect and others who choose to follow the commandments of Christ. The elect will be immortal and will rule with Christ. The righteous nations will live in peace and harmony, but there will be a group who will oppose the rule of God.

I am fully aware of the fact that the nations will need to be shepherded. In other words, as the need arises, some will require rule and guidance into God's will.

"And I will give the nations as Your inheritance and the limits of the earth as Your possession.

You will break them with an iron rod; You will shatter them like a potter's vessel."

Comp. Rev.2:26 -

"And he who overcomes and he who keeps My works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations; And he will shepherd them with an iron rod, as vessels of pottery are broken in pieces, as I also have received from My Father."

Rajk999,

Perhaps YOU imagined that I was unaware that some nations will require to be shepherded with an "iron rod" of kingly power, knocking them and putting them in line as the need arises.

What I would like to review is how long and how much of the millennium is occupied by these actions. Eventually, even unruly sheep are brought into order.

If you have evidence that at the end of the millennium will still remain unruly nations, what is it ?

To get the whole picture about these events you need to piece together the descriptions of all the prophets and not just think that Revelation has it all.

Perhaps YOU assumed that I only am aware of the Revelation passage. Perhaps that is a presupposition that YOU have about my study of the matter.

As I write, what I would want to review is what evidence one would have that at the END of that long period, those shepherded nations still are unruly. IE. Not recognizing the blessings of the restored earth.

What is your evidence that throughout the entire millennium some nations will remain unbelieving until the end of that period ?