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    12 Jan '12 07:331 edit
    The JW organisation claims that only 144,000 anointed JW's will go to heaven. However the numbers of those within the organisation who partake of the emblems "bread and wine" is steadily increasing despite the organisation claiming we are in the end times, and also that the 144,000 includes every annointed JW since Jesus was on Earth 2000 years ago.

    That's an average of 72 people getting into JW heaven every year since Jesus time. Considering there are currently 7.5 million JW's on Earth today this poses a real problem doesn't it; how many of these will make it into what must be by now a very small select little group going to JW heaven? There can't be more that a few seats left!

    As a modern day JW what would be my options I may wonder? Here is 2 minute video discusing the issue.

    http://vimeo.com/3934623
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    12 Jan '12 07:35
    Originally posted by divegeester
    The JW organisation claims that only 144,000 anointed JW's will go to heaven.
    Is this an uncontested fact?
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    12 Jan '12 07:391 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Is this an uncontested fact?
    Which part; that they claim it as part of thier doctrine - yes they do

    That the claim is actually fact - no, it is contested by most of Christianity.

    Did you watch the link?
  4. SubscriberFMF
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    12 Jan '12 07:46
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Which part; that they claim it as part of thier doctrine - yes they do
    I meant the claim about the 144,000. galveston75 and robbie corrobie will have to concede that it's true?
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    12 Jan '12 07:50
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Did you watch the link?
    Downloading a video of John Scofield Trio at Blue Note NewYork September 2004 is making streaming anything problematical. So I am downloading the flv file instead and then watch it.
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    12 Jan '12 07:51
    Originally posted by FMF
    I meant the claim about the 144,000. galveston75 and robbie corrobie will have to concede that it's true?
    Yes it is JW doctrine. The rest of the "not quite so faithful but faithful enough to escape the consequences ofnot being a JW" will as I understand it - remain to live on Earth.
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    12 Jan '12 12:011 edit
    Another epic fail, who told you that people go to heaven at a standard rate of 72
    persons per year? Did you make that up, yes you did, please tell the forum what YOU
    will do in heaven once you get there, that is correct, you will be a king and a priest, to
    rule over what? please tell the forum how the righteous will inherit the earth, if all
    good people go to heaven, that is correct, you cannot, all in all, you have no clue and
    you can only do what you always do, make things up.

    I have no issues with 144,000 persons ruling with Christ and making up a heavenly
    government, why, because i know that its based on the original temple arrangement,
    which i can explain as being a type, or pattern, you do not know anything in this
    regard, that is why, you continue to make stupid and ill informed statements.
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    12 Jan '12 12:051 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    I meant the claim about the 144,000. galveston75 and robbie corrobie will have to concede that it's true?
    we must conceded nothing that he states is true, the stupidity of his posts are self
    evident for anyone to see, as if God selects the same number of persons every
    year??? How does he know that, that is correct he doesn't and that is why his post
    along with all the others are not worth arguing over, there is practically nothing of
    substance to them.

    someone certainly left to their own devices, 4sure
  9. SubscriberProper Knob
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    12 Jan '12 12:09
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    we must conceded nothing that he states is true, the stupidity of his posts are self
    evident for anyone to see, as if God selects the same number of persons every
    year??? How does he know that, that is correct he doesn't and that is why his post
    along with all the others are not worth arguing over, there is practically nothing of
    substance to them.
    He didn't say that God selects 72 people a year, that's what it works out on average. Read the text before jumping headlong in.
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    12 Jan '12 12:122 edits
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    He didn't say that God selects 72 people a year, that's what it works out on average. Read the text before jumping headlong in.
    then what is he foaming about? if he does not know how many persons God selects why is he trying to make an issue over it?
  11. SubscriberProper Knob
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    12 Jan '12 12:17
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    then what is he foaming about? if he does not know how many persons God selects why is he trying to make an issue over it?
    I don't know, and i don't care. But he didn't say God selects 72 people a year, that much is self evident.
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    12 Jan '12 12:251 edit
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    I don't know, and i don't care. But he didn't say God selects 72 people a year, that much is self evident.
    he is trying to portray it like it is, that's why he highlighted his text in bold, to give
    the appearance. He typically makes assertions on conditions that cannot be known and
    then proceeds to make a case for his assertions on the basis of something that cannot
    be known, this is another example. If its impossible to state how many persons God
    selects every year yet is he making an issue about it? It reflective of the way he
    operates, its simply not worth the effort.
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    12 Jan '12 12:311 edit
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    I don't know, and i don't care. But he didn't say God selects 72 people a year, that much is self evident.
    No, his gripe is not about the 72 people per year that he says it averages out to over the last 200 years. It is unfortunate that he highlighted that bit.

    His gripe is that JW doctrine says that said 144,000 in total people will go to 'JW Heaven' and that there are many more JW's on the planet right now and through the ages there have been even more in total. He understood that JW doctrine was that 144,000 are saved and the rest get left to the same fate as is reserved all the non-believers. This seems unfair to hundreds of thousands of devout JWs that will get missed.

    I think you may have cleared this up though. I think you are saying there are actually 3 levels:
    144,000 select JW's get to go to heaven.
    The remaining JW's get to live an idyllic life on Earth.
    Everyone else is doomed to go to Hell (or whatever the JW equivalent is).

    Is this what you are saying? And also, is this actually the official JW doctrine?

    --- Penguin
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    12 Jan '12 12:34
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    we must conceded nothing that he states is true, the stupidity of his posts are self
    evident for anyone to see, as if God selects the same number of persons every
    year??? How does he know that, that is correct he doesn't and that is why his post
    along with all the others are not worth arguing over, there is practically nothing of
    substance to them.

    someone certainly left to their own devices, 4sure
    Have you watched the video, robbie?
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    12 Jan '12 12:36
    Originally posted by Penguin
    No, he said 144,000 people will go to 'JW Heaven' and his gripe is that there are many more JW's on the planet right now and through the ages there have been even more in total. He understood that JW doctrine was that 144,000 are saved and the rest get left to the same fate as is reserved all the non-believers.

    I think you may have cleared this up. I thin ...[text shortened]... is what you are saying? And also, is this actually the official JW doctrine?

    --- Penguin
    if there is no way of knowing who God selects and in what epoch of history regardless
    of how many witnesses are living on the planet at present, then he is basing an
    argument on an unknown variable and proceeding to draw some kind of correlation on
    the basis of his unknown variable and to draw some kind of conclusion from it.
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