Originally posted by FreakyKBH I suppose the irony of your 'statement' is lost on you, so void of purpose and all. You claim there exists no external purpose for life, but do so by pointing to a rock which derives its purpose by virtue of an external source! Brilliant!
Yes, I suppose it was lost on me.
My analogy is simply that - an analogy - and to extend that makes the classic mistake of all analogies. They are simply ways of gaining insight into an unrelated issue and we shouldn't overextend their use.
The rock exists in the real world - not the fantasy world of fairies and easter bunnies and gods. External to something in the real world, is ... something else in the real world. In this case, us. We create meanings and purposes for the rock, just as we do for ourselves.
Now of course you should feel free to run with my analogy as far as you like, but you'll still be running through that fantasy world that finds a need for some universal purpose.
Go on Forrest, run ...
Originally posted by amannion Yes, I suppose it was lost on me.
My analogy is simply that - an analogy - and to extend that makes the classic mistake of all analogies. They are simply ways of gaining insight into an unrelated issue and we shouldn't overextend their use.
The rock exists in the real world - not the fantasy world of fairies and easter bunnies and gods. External to someth ...[text shortened]... ough that fantasy world that finds a need for some universal purpose.
Go on Forrest, run ...
Is logic part of the "real world" which excludes those cute wittle bunnies, those endearing fairies? Or is logic something superimposed upon the real world by man?
Too, if your scenario be true, you've offered no support for being good... let alone how one might realistically define 'good' in the first place. No compelling reason to not believe in magic, fantasy or the like, really.
Originally posted by FreakyKBH Is logic part of the "real world" which excludes those cute wittle bunnies, those endearing fairies? Or is logic something superimposed upon the real world by man?
Too, if your scenario be true, you've offered no support for being good... let alone how one might realistically define 'good' in the first place. No compelling reason to not believe in magic, fantasy or the like, really.
What's any more compelling about your basis of 'good'? You read it in a book, or a priest told you what was good. Is that it?
Oh no wait, gold told you what was good.
Oh, that must be it then.
My notion of good is the golden rule - try to act with other people as you hope they would act with you. It works pretty well, and has done for many thousands of years. It may not be perfect mind you, but we humans make a few mistakes here and there.
That's all a part of life ...
Originally posted by FreakyKBH Is logic part of the "real world" which excludes those cute wittle bunnies, those endearing fairies? Or is logic something superimposed upon the real world by man?
Yes logic is part of the real world and not superimposed upon it by man. Without logic, nothing can exist. Everything would be meaningless even a claim of existence. I think, therefore I am, requires logic to deduce.
Originally posted by twhitehead Yes logic is part of the real world and not superimposed upon it by man. Without logic, nothing can exist. Everything would be meaningless even a claim of existence. I think, therefore I am, requires logic to deduce.
Since it is a study of man, a discipline, how can it be anything other than an artificial construct?
As far as everything being meaningless, isn't this exactly what is being said, by those who claim it all ends here?
Originally posted by amannion What's any more compelling about your basis of 'good'? You read it in a book, or a priest told you what was good. Is that it?
Oh no wait, gold told you what was good.
Oh, that must be it then.
My notion of good is the golden rule - try to act with other people as you hope they would act with you. It works pretty well, and has done for many thousands of ...[text shortened]... t mind you, but we humans make a few mistakes here and there.
That's all a part of life ...
I believe we all have a sense of good, of evil--- some more acute than others, some less. That's beside the point, however. Your pragmatism aside, you've offered no reason for acting in a manner consistent with what we universally call 'good.'
Originally posted by FreakyKBH Since it is a study of man, a discipline, how can it be anything other than an artificial construct?
No, it is not 'a study of man', nor a discipline. It is most certainly not an artificial construct. If this is what you thought logic was, no wonder you have previously claimed that God is not subject to logic.
As far as everything being meaningless, isn't this exactly what is being said, by those who claim it all ends here? No, not at all. Not even close.
Originally posted by twhitehead No, it is not 'a study of man', nor a discipline. It is most certainly not an artificial construct. If this is what you thought logic was, no wonder you have previously claimed that God is not subject to logic.
[b]As far as everything being meaningless, isn't this exactly what is being said, by those who claim it all ends here? No, not at all. Not even close.[/b]
No, it is not 'a study of man', nor a discipline. That's weird, because no matter where I look for a definition, I get pretty much the same thing.
a weed has its own purpose its just a mystery is all like life and the universe but when you add GOD to the mix you have reality but like the word of god says when jesus arives on time ofcorse he will gather the wicked like weeds and throw them into the fire " that is absolut death and seperation from GOD forever" so the good news is that jesus died so that we can find our way to his kingdom where there is no sin when he gave his life he paid the the price for our sin we cant help but to sin its human to go against GODS laws wicth is what sin is so if we want to get too GODS holy kingdom we must repent meaning being turly sorry for what we have done for breaking GODS laws to learn of GODS laws we can find them in the bible the 10 comandments are the big ones, but if we want to go on without a purpose like a weed you will remain a mystery to GOD I DONT claim to know it all about the truth about GOD and what one has to do to get to everlasting life with the creator of all that is seen an unseen but i try thats the key i feel as long as i give it my best then i have a purpose so when jesus arive for his 2nd time i wont be like a weed with no purpose or a mystery to GOD i know i want to see etenal life with GOD you can bet it will be nothing but blissfull i hope i dont sound like a freak on the treet corner yelling that the end is near but i will say for me i see the evidense all around me for me i beleave it close so hold on tight.... peace to you all and may you find purpose in your life ......... TIM S
The language of logic is man made...logic itself is just a facet of reality; similarly though arithmetic deals with numbers, things came in pairs long before we began to talk about the number 2
Originally posted by twhitehead Yes it is weird. I too did not find a definition that matches my usage.
So what do you think 'illogical' means? The non-study or anti-discipline?
[b]Uh, QED, dude. Sorry, I don't get the joke. (if thats what that was meant to be).[/b]
So what do you think 'illogical' means? The non-study or anti-discipline? Cute. I'd say it means not conforming with the rules or findings of the field of study.
Sorry, I don't get the joke. (if thats what that was meant to be). I was pointing to your refutation of my assertion, namely, I said the previous statements resulted in a meaningless universe, a meaningless existence. You simply said I am wrong without demonstrating the wherefore's and why's.
Originally posted by FreakyKBH Cute. I'd say it means not conforming with the rules or findings of the field of study.
And I would say my usage of the word 'logic' is to mean 'the rule or findings of the field of study called "logic"'.
Just like the word "chemistry" can be used to refer to the field of study or the actual real world action of chemicals. Or we can talk of the "physics" of system, the study of physics, or the field of study called physics.
I was pointing to your refutation of my assertion, namely, I said the previous statements resulted in a meaningless universe, a meaningless existence. You simply said I am wrong without demonstrating the wherefore's and why's. And I think we are using 'meaningless' in different ways, which is why I disputed it. But it is really not worth going into.
A dandelion is a flower, if it's growing on somebodies well kept lawn then it is termed a weed.
A pine tree is a tree, if it's growing in National Trust managed woods for instance where it's not suppossed to be, then it is a weed.
Here's a nice definition from Weeds of the West.
A plant that interferes with management objectives for a given area of land at a given point in time.
we are talking not of weeds, trees, flowers or lawns, either well cultivated or meadow lawns, but of thoughts! Now we must fill up or minds with something, my point being of course that if we do not, then a mind left uncultivated shall resemble a garden which has been neglected. You may of course disagree and may of course argue that a rustic and unkempt quality is to be preferred over a well manicured and cultivated garden but alas the illustration while being brilliant in its simplicity was lost on those who prefer gardening manuals to discussing spirituality! Ammanion mentioned that his purpose is to be a good father, well ok, but so is Sqiggy the red squirrels, he builds a nest, gathers food, prepares for winter, looks after his young etc etc, what is it that makes Ammanion different? His spirituality! the fact that he is able to reflect, learn from past mistakes, plan for the future, reason, contemplate his existence (one hopes he lives rather than merely exists) etc etc yes it was with reference to conscious thought and its implications on our understanding of purpose that my brilliant illustration was intended to convey! Alas you bad ol putty cat materialists spoiled it! :'(
Whats the Purpose of life?
07 Sep '10 12:46
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