Originally posted by robbie carrobieI'm not your friend robbie, and your condescending manner suggests to me that you may have fewer friends than you think.
so the conclusion of the matter is that our friend ammanion, or any one of us for that matter, have no more purpose to our lives than squiggly the red squirrel or a piece of rock?
sigh
But you're right, I have no more external purpose than a rock or squirrel. I don't exist for a reason - other than the obvious physical one. (Parents getting together ... umm, let's not go there!)
But so what?
I construct meaning for myself. I create the purpose for my life. The squirrel and rock can do whatever the hell they want.
And you can follow the meaningless drivel of fairies and easter bunnies if you like ...
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Originally posted by amannionfirst of all i have not condescended to anyone, i am a man the same as you are a man, the tone that you are hearing exists entirely in your own mind and i dare say is a product of it. Could it be that you are mistaken? Did you even consider the possibility? Yes indeed for we are human and prone to aberration.
I'm not your friend robbie, and your condescending manner suggests to me that you may have fewer friends than you think.
But you're right, I have no more external purpose than a rock or squirrel. I don't exist for a reason - other than the obvious physical one. (Parents getting together ... umm, let's not go there!)
But so what?
I construct meaning for m ...[text shortened]... nt.
And you can follow the meaningless drivel of fairies and easter bunnies if you like ...
Perhaps i have preached scripture upon scripture to you, ignoring your comments and seeking only to establish my own thoughts? perhaps i have belittled your ideas, couching my words in terms like 'fairy tales' and 'Easter bunnies'? I can assure you i have neither the mind nor the inclination to hurt anyone, either verbally or emotionally, and the thoughts that you are ranting against are nothing but the musings of a ragged clown chasing shadows, if you leave them until morning, they dissipate and are no more, i would not get stressed over them. Ok so your not friendly, its merely a turn of phrase, but i shall withdraw it in your case until such times as you lighten up, for to be sure your countenance is serious and brooding.
i use illustrations and was chastised for it. are you not a teacher? do you not appreciate the importance of illustration? Even i honoured you, stating that you were surely different from a purely instinctive little creature, and what seemed to me to mark the difference was your consciousness, your ability to reason and to reflect and learn. does that strike you as condescending? arrogant? it doesn't to me. Perhaps you have a siege mentality from spending time on the forum, i have no wish to attack you and it seemed strange to me that only when persons did, you responded, so i left it, perhaps he likes arguing as opposed to reasoning i thought, oh well every one to their own, and so off i went, skipping to reels of rhyme and throwing my tambourine in time.
i would usually put a smiley here, but seeing that your not very friendly, ill just leave it.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell I think you're lovely.
first of all i have not condescended to anyone, i am a man the same as you are a man, the tone that you are hearing exists entirely in your own mind and i dare say is a product of it. Could it be that you are mistaken? Did you even consider the possibility? Yes indeed for we are human and prone to aberration.
Perhaps i have preached scriptur ...[text shortened]... would usually put a smiley here, but seeing that your not very friendly, ill just leave it.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOh you'll have to go at me a little bit harder and longer to actually hurt me. I'm pretty tough.
first of all i have not condescended to anyone, i am a man the same as you are a man, the tone that you are hearing exists entirely in your own mind and i dare say is a product of it. Could it be that you are mistaken? Did you even consider the possibility? Yes indeed for we are human and prone to aberration.
Perhaps i have preached scriptur ...[text shortened]... would usually put a smiley here, but seeing that your not very friendly, ill just leave it.
I won't bother going over the condescension argument - we'll too and fro over that one endlessly. (Much like this forum I would think.)
I'm not sure why you would think I would be honoured to be placed above any other creature. I an what I am. The squirrels are what they are. Why would it be an honour to be better than another creature?
I don't deny that there are aspects of our existence that make us immeasurably superior to a squirrel - yes we can contemplate our existence, and think abstract thoughts, and create poetry, and all of that.
But so what?
This just makes us better at contemplation and abstraction and poetry. Does it make us 'better'?
And what of the rock? Are we better than a rock? Well, I like my existence there's no denying that,but how do you compare yourself with a rock.
I think the truth is we live with two entirely different conceptions of the world around us. Mine doesn't require validation from some supernatural externality.Yours would seem to ...
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Originally posted by amannioni am sure you are, but as i stated, i have no intention of wilfully hurting anyone. My intent was not so much to honour you, simply to show that you are obviously quite different, for it seemed to me that you were doing yourself a disservice, for while a squirrel may carry out essentially the same affairs of providing for himself and his family, he does it primarily through instinct, whereas you have the capacity to reason and apply knowledge, is it not the case? what is more you appreciate beauty and art, music and literature. You can reflect on past events, plan for the future and contemplate whether life has meaning and purpose. You thrive on love and on reciprocating that love, These things i would term spirituality, is it not what makes you different from the little squirrel. Is it not better to have these faculties rather than simply to function?
Oh you'll have to go at me a little bit harder and longer to actually hurt me. I'm pretty tough.
I won't bother going over the condescension argument - we'll too and fro over that one endlessly. (Much like this forum I would think.)
I'm not sure why you would think I would be honoured to be placed above any other creature. I an what I am. The squirrels ar doesn't require validation from some supernatural externality.Yours would seem to ...
yes you are correct , that was what my little illustration of the flowers was essentially saying, we are products of thoughts that have become fertile in our minds.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI'm not sure I entirely agree with your notion of what constitutes spirituality, but let's accept that for the moment.
i am sure you are, but as i stated, i have no intention of wilfully hurting anyone. My intent was not so much to honour you, simply to show that you are obviously quite different, for it seemed to me that you were doing yourself a disservice, for while a squirrel may carry out essentially the same affairs of providing for himself and his family, he ...[text shortened]... e things i would term spirituality, is it not what makes you different from the little squirrel.
What's your point though?
I have spirituality and a squirrel doesn't. So what? I have a lot of things a squirrel doesn't. And the squirrel has and does things that I don't or can't.
This fact doesn't imbue me with any more purpose than the squirrel, or vice versa.
Originally posted by amannionso what will you do with your spirituality? it seems to me that if you can answer this, it would lead to happiness, for how can anyone show a pretence of happiness in a purely futile action?
I'm not sure I entirely agree with your notion of what constitutes spirituality, but let's accept that for the moment.
What's your point though?
I have spirituality and a squirrel doesn't. So what? I have a lot of things a squirrel doesn't. And the squirrel has and does things that I don't or can't.
This fact doesn't imbue me with any more purpose than the squirrel, or vice versa.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieCouple of questions Robbie, though the relevance of the latter depends on your answer to the following:
i am sure you are, but as i stated, i have no intention of wilfully hurting anyone. My intent was not so much to honour you, simply to show that you are obviously quite different, for it seemed to me that you were doing yourself a disservice, for while a squirrel may carry out essentially the same affairs of providing for himself and his family, he ...[text shortened]... owers was essentially saying, we are products of thoughts that have become fertile in our minds.
When you say 'spirituality' does this have any connotation with the notion of a 'soul' (in some non material sense)?
Originally posted by Agergno absolutely none whatsoever, indeed, the concept of a transient entity which transcends death, or even itself, is as far as we understand (my branch of Christianity), is a non reality.
Couple of questions Robbie, though the relevance of the latter depends on your answer to the following:
When you say 'spirituality' does this have any connotation with the notion of a 'soul' (in some non material sense)?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAssuming your definition of spirituality, I will continue to appreciate music and literature and art, I will continue to love,I will continue to apply my reason and thought.
so what will you do with your spirituality? it seems to me that if you can answer this, it would lead to happiness, for how can anyone show a pretence of happiness in a purely futile action?
I'm not sure what you mean by futile. Do you mean that I will die and be gone and so my actions here are futile? I reject that since my interactions and relationships with people and the world around me - my family, my students, my friends - will all outlast my physical presence.
Do you mean something else?
I am happy though - not happy in a blissful,mindful Buddhist sense - but I'm happy.
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Originally posted by amannionno it was a question directed not at you personally, but just something to think about for it seems to me somehow strange that anyone should be happy about a purely futile affair, don't you think? I would not for one minute claim that your life is without purpose and futile. 🙂
Assuming your definition of spirituality, I will continue to appreciate music and literature and art, I will continue to love,I will continue to apply my reason and thought.
I'm not sure what you mean by futile. Do you mean that I will die and be gone and so my actions here are futile? I reject that since my interactions and relationships with people and t ...[text shortened]... ing else?
I am happy though - not happy in a blissful,mindful Buddhist sense - but I'm happy.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI agree personally, I'm not sure how I would be happy with a futile life. But I guess that's the nature of how we rationalise our lives or aspects of them at times.
no it was a question directed not at you personally, but just something to think about for it seems to me somehow strange that anyone should be happy about a purely futile affair, don't you think? I would not for one minute claim that your life is without purpose and futile. 🙂
I can't imagine how a death row inmate, or someone living in a concentration camp could be happy, but I'm sure there are times in their existences when they are.
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Originally posted by amannionits very interesting, for during the Nazi occupation of Europe, many members of my branch of Christianity (im not sure if i can term it a sect) were incarcerated for refusing to take up arms, refusing to hail Hitler etc etc . What the SS officers and prison guard officials observed was a complete contrast in countenance to those who were there, the victims of pure circumstance (its actually documented and if challenged i am sure i could find it). Now nothing in nature i know likes to be incarcerated, being there for a reason somehow had an observable physical effect on those with purpose, enabling them to transcend unnatural and inhumane conditions. Its really something to think about,
I agree personally, I'm not sure how I would be happy with a futile life. But I guess that's the nature of how we rationalise our lives or aspects of them at times.
I can't imagine how a death row inmate, or someone living in a concentration camp could be happy, but I'm sure there are times in their existences when they are.
so umm, were agreed then, life has purpose 😉
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNo, I haven't said that.
its very interesting, for during the Nazi occupation of Europe, many members of my branch of Christianity (im not sure if i can term it a sect) were incarcerated for refusing to take up arms, refusing to hail Hitler etc etc . What the SS officers and prison guard officials observed was a complete contrast in countenance to those who were there, the ...[text shortened]... ditions. Its really something to think about,
so umm, were agreed then, life has purpose 😉
Life has no external purpose - we impose our own purpose on it.