02 Jun 09
So folks, the ancient brothers, said "Wait a minute. Arius can't be right. This Jesus is God Himself incarnate. God is .... let us say ... triune."
They were just faithfully putting a term on what they knew was in the Bible and in their experience of God and Christ.
02 Jun 09
Originally posted by jaywillwhat is it that you do not understand with regard to the term god? notice small letters as opposed to Almighty God? for there are many instances in scripture that refer to 'god', or 'gods', that have no intention of bearing any resemble to Almighty God.
[b]=========================================
John 1
1The Word already was, way back before anything began to be. The Word and God were together. The Word was God.
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Thank you duecer. I am reading your replies very carefully for I find them helpful.
Robbie's concept seems to be that there was a time when the Word ...[text shortened]... is true that the Logos was a created inferior OTHER God before all creation.
Am I right ?[/b]
02 Jun 09
3 edits
Originally posted by dueceractually your betraying a real ignorance of anything relevant, for as yet you still have not produced one iota of minuscule evidence as to why it is 'shoddy' and intellectually dishonest, nor do i fear staking my soul on anything , especially 'the immortality of the human soul', which is in itself another Satanic lie, remember that, 'you positively will not die', and yet they died, why Satan seems to be stating the same thing as you, how interesting, dont you think. therefore i will take my chances with Micheal Servetus, whom you Calvanists and trinitarians had burned alive, because he knew your doctrine was a fallacy! and having proved its textual inaccuracy, i will now turn my attention to its historical origins, i do hope you like Greek poetry and myth.
now you are being intellectually dishonest, as well as evading serious questions. Your "nuke" option has just been shown to be a dud. Your translation does not hold up to scrutiny. Your entire theology is premised on the shoddy or innacurate translation of one verse, while the prepoderance of theological argument taken directly from the inspired word of God s in betting my immortal soul on a passage of scripture that I wasn't sure of its translation.
02 Jun 09
3 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobie=========================================
yes to be sure life is a serious business, why is it blasphemous, because it elevates a creature, in this case Jesus Christ, who had a beginning, as the scriptures state, who is the firstborn, of all creation, to a level and place reserved only for the almighty himself, thus it becomes a form of idolatry. secondly, its origins are from pre-christian ...[text shortened]... it 'something other than the good news we declared to you', in others words its apostatizing.
why is it blasphemous, because it elevates a creature, in this case Jesus Christ, who had a beginning, as the scriptures state, who is the firstborn, of all creation, to a level and place reserved only for the almighty himself, thus it becomes a form of idolatry.
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Let's see if this lines up with the word of God.
The Apostle Paul believed in God before he became a Christian. He was raised in the strict sect of the Pharisees. And as a Pharisee Saul (Paul) would never blaspheme God. Right ?
He would not blaspheme God. However Paul says that before he became a disciple of Jesus, HE WAS A BLASPHEMER !
"I give thanks to Him who empowers me, Christ Jesus our Lord, that He has accounted me faithful, appointing me to the ministry,
Who formerly was a blasphemer and a persecutor ..." (See 1 Timothy 1:12,13)
Therefore according to your own definition for Paul not to elevate Jesus but to persecute Him was for Paul to be a "blasphemer".
Not only so Robbie, but for the former blasphemer, the strict Pharisee Saul of Tarsus, to get his persecuted victims to deny the Son of God was to force them to "blaspheme".
"And in all the synagogues I punished them often and tried to compel them to blaspheme ..." (Acts 26:11)
Therefore for Saul to compel the Christians to deny Jesus the Son of God was to cause them to blaspheme. A strict Pharisee like the student of Gameliel would never compel the Jews to blaspheme. This indicates that Jesus was God incarnate to Paul once he became a Christian.
At least it shows the high degree to which Paul exalted the Son of God so as to deny Jesus was to blaspheme. But Jesus said that we should honor Him even as we honor the Father (John 5:23).
02 Jun 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI have, but you are blinded to the truth
[b]actually your betraying a real ignorance of anything relevant, for as yet you still have not produced one iota of minuscule evidence as to ...
edit: I am not a calvinist btw, I am methodist which is a rejection of calvinism
02 Jun 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBlasphemy? So you agree that it is blasphamy to worship the creature over the Creator? Why then is "the Lamb" of God worshiped in Revelation? Is this blasphemy or are they worshipping God?
yes to be sure life is a serious business, why is it blasphemous, because it elevates a creature, in this case Jesus Christ, who had a beginning, as the scriptures state, who is the firstborn, of all creation, to a level and place reserved only for the almighty himself, thus it becomes a form of idolatry. secondly, its origins are from pre-christian ...[text shortened]... it 'something other than the good news we declared to you', in others words its apostatizing.
02 Jun 09
Originally posted by dueceryeah yeah whatever, it must have been so minuscule that even Steve Austin the six million dollar man would have trouble seeing it with his microscopic eye. as for me, the text stands good and sound until such times as serious doubt can be cast upon its integrity, by those who are objective about it.
I have, but you are blinded to the truth
edit: I am not a calvinist btw, I am methodist which is a rejection of calvinism
02 Jun 09
Originally posted by whodeyeveryone knows Jaywill, that adoration is given to the son, in fact the scriptures clearly state that, let me quote, some scripture. for to be sure, those like you who are bereft of understanding, can do with every scrap of scripture they can get.
Blasphemy? So you agree that it is blasphamy to worship the creature over the Creator? Why then is "the Lamb" of God worshiped in Revelation? Is this blasphemy or are they worshipping God?
Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:5-11, NWT
you will naturally note that Christ, quite contrary to your pagan dogma, does not consider himself equal to God, yes, he has an exalted position next to God, quite frankly, as King of Gods Kingdom, that everyone should indeed acknowledge this and respect it as one would of such a personage. yes, every knee is bending to the Christ in acknowledgment of this, you will note however, that the glory goes to the father, thus it may be similar with the lamb, although your tricky deception would seem to indicate otherwise, but again, we are not buying it, for it is, as usual, conveniently taken out of context to suit your dogmatic reasoning's, your house is abandoned to you! servetus lives, moffat lives, russel lives, arius lives, but the trinity is dead!
02 Jun 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieJohn 14
you will naturally note that Christ, quite contrary to your pagan dogma, does not consider himself equal to God, yes, he has an exalted position next to God, quite frankly, as King of Gods Kingdom, that everyone should indeed acknowledge this and respect it as one would of such a personage. yes, every knee is bending to the Christ in acknowledgment ...[text shortened]... oned to you! servetus lives, moffat lives, russel lives, arius lives, but the trinity is dead!
9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?
02 Jun 09
Originally posted by duecer😴
John 14
9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?
have you got nothing better?
02 Jun 09
Originally posted by dueceri do not discount the words of the Christ, for they are like honey to my lips, but as for its interpretation well, that quite different. here colossians 1:15 also helps us, for it states that Christ is the perfect reflection of his father, thus he exemplified to such a superlative degree the qualities of his father, that he could say, he who has seen me has seen the father. one naturally wonders why the disciples never thought of him as the father, to initiate the question in the first place, and why Christ simply did not state, that he was the father. any ideas, oh i know, the idea of Christ being the father never entered their minds until four to eight hundred years later.
you discount the words of Jesus? then whose words will you believe? not mine for sure. The fraud Russell? which of his prophecies have ever come true?
02 Jun 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieso if he is a perfect reflection then he must be on equal footing
i do not discount the words of the Christ, for they are like honey to my lips, but as for its interpretation well, that quite different. here colossians 1:15 also helps us, for it states that Christ is the perfect reflection of his father, thus he exemplified to such a superlative degree the qualities of his father, that he could say, he who has see ...[text shortened]... ea of Christ being the father never entered their minds until four to eight hundred years later.
02 Jun 09
1 edit
Originally posted by dueceralas no, for when you look in the mirror, you see your reflection, it is an image representative of you, but not you yourself and the words of Philippians quoted above clearly indicates that this is not the case, also, 'the father is greater than I', etc etc etc.
so if he is a perfect reflection then he must be on equal footing