Who is Jesus?

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]The Bible said that you may KNOW. It did not say that you may hope for the best, assume, hang in there and see how it turns out, etc.

Amen![/b]

Romans 10:9 "That if you confess with your mouth that Jesus IS Lord, and will believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you WILL be saved." 😀

Originally posted by whodey
Romans 10:9 "That if you confess with your mouth that Jesus IS Lord, and will believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you WILL be saved." 😀

"Blessed are you... for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven" (Matthew 16:17).

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]The Bible said that you may KNOW. It did not say that you may hope for the best, assume, hang in there and see how it turns out, etc.

Amen![/b]

i am sorry this is nonsense, and here is the scriptural reasons why!

Seek the LORD, all you humble of the land,
you who do what he commands.
Seek righteousness, seek humility;
perhaps you will be sheltered
on the day of the LORD's anger. Zepheniah 2:3

(I apologise for the vagueness of the translation, for to be sure the NIV is a wholly inaccurate and sterile translation)

you will notice the statement perhaps, other translations render it probably, why is this the case if one knows they are saved?

Paul also stated, 'Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall', 1 Corinthians 10:12

why is this the case? was Paul also not saved, did Paul also not know? indeed the very scripture itself plainly states that a Christian can take nothing for granted, not even his own standing before God.

therefore this very idea, that salvation is somehow assured simply on the basis of a declaration of faith is nonsense, and in my opinion breeds a kind of self righteousness among those who profess it.

Originally posted by duecer
here is were i find some flaws in your reasoning. John 14-17 is known as the 'farewell address'. In it Christ fills in the gap's of knowledge that the disciples had yet to divine for themselves.

In 14:9 he literally says that those who have seen him have seen the father, it is a rather unambiguous statement. He doesn't say he who has seen me has seen a rea said while I was with you." hereby establishing the basis for the trinitarian doctrine.

actually deucer this type of argument is cannon fodder for anti trinitarians, for you will notice that in the context Christ also states that he and the disciples are one, just as he and the father are one, therefore following your 'logic', that would also mean therefore that they are part of your pagan trinity, i do not think so.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i am sorry this is nonsense, and here is the scriptural reasons why!

Seek the LORD, all you humble of the land,
you who do what he commands.
Seek righteousness, seek humility;
perhaps you will be sheltered
on the day of the LORD's anger. Zepheniah 2:3

(I apologise for the vagueness of the translation, for to be s ...[text shortened]... s nonsense, and in my opinion breeds a kind of self righteousness among those who profess it.

=======================
i am sorry this is nonsense, and here is the scriptural reasons why!

Seek the LORD, all you humble of the land,
you who do what he commands.
Seek righteousness, seek humility;
perhaps you will be sheltered
on the day of the LORD's anger. Zepheniah 2:3
=================================

Robbie, you should have the assurance of your eternal redemption.

This does not mean that you cannot still "seek the Lord". It does not mean that you cannot still seek righteousness and humility.

There is nothing in the New Testament teaching that because one has the assurance of his salvation therefore he will not do all these things.

In the same letter where John wrote that " ... you may know that you have eternal life" he also taught that those knowing should humbly seek righteousness and humility.

You should not confuse the two matters.

If you have never asked the Lord Jesus Christ to come into your heart that your sins may be all forgiven then you would have doubts. And the teaching you receive insulates you from opening up to the Lord Jesus.

Do you see what has happened to you Robbie? You're teaching of certain things has suspicioned you and insulated you towards Jesus. And I think because of this veil of suspicion you have never opened up to receive the Lord Jesus into you heart that you may KNOW that you have eternal life.

You're hoping for the best. This is like the cultural Catholic. This is like the Moslem. But this is not the assurance spoken of in the NT.

The Holy Spirit comes into the spirit of the saved to be a pledge and a seal. That is a deep garuantee which no man can remove from your being. That is like a sure down payment of the fuller treasure to come:

I know that I have eternal redemption. It is harder work for me to doubt it than it is to believeit. It is impossible for me to not believe it. Even if I wanted to disbelieve that I was saved because of some extreme campaign of supposed "humility" I could not work up the energy to disbelieve.

It is not up to me. It is up to this pledge of the Holy Spirit within me. His "anointing" teaches me that Christ is in me.

Do not confuse this biblcal assurance with a failure to humbly go on to seek righteous daily living. This is the assurance that "the blood of Jesus Christ God's Son cleanses us from every sin" (1 John 1:7)

I'll be back.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i am sorry this is nonsense, and here is the scriptural reasons why!

Seek the LORD, all you humble of the land,
you who do what he commands.
Seek righteousness, seek humility;
perhaps you will be sheltered
on the day of the LORD's anger. Zepheniah 2:3

(I apologise for the vagueness of the translation, for to be s ...[text shortened]... s nonsense, and in my opinion breeds a kind of self righteousness among those who profess it.

=================================
Paul also stated, 'Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall', 1 Corinthians 10:12

why is this the case? was Paul also not saved, did Paul also not know? indeed the very scripture itself plainly states that a Christian can take nothing for granted, not even his own standing before God.

therefore this very idea, that salvation is somehow assured simply on the basis of a declaration of faith is nonsense, and in my opinion breeds a kind of self righteousness among those who profess it.
======================================

You should not be deceived. For Satan to whisper to you "Now be humble. Don't insist that you are saved. That is too proud. You have to be humble and not take it for granted."

This is false humility. You should receive Jesus Christ the living Lord into your heart.

"As many as RECEIVED Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name." (John 1:12)

How do you know that subtly the teaching you have embraced has been designed to prevent you from believing into His name? You question about Jesus. You doubt that He can come into our heart. You think it is disrepectful to God the Father to exalt Jesus.

I assure Robbie, the higher you exalt Jesus the Son of God the happier the Father will be. And you should ASK Jesus to cleanse you of all your sins and come into your heart.

You should not delay one more day. You are not garuanteed another day. Now is the time to apply that passage "Seek the Lord while He can be found. Call upon Him while He is near."

Do not be deceived. Doubt, unbelief, wavering, these are not humility.

=========================================
therefore this very idea, that salvation is somehow assured simply on the basis of a declaration of faith is nonsense, and in my opinion breeds a kind of self righteousness among those who profess it.
========================================

The assurance is based on the inward knowing that Christ has come into your heart and has given you a new life. This life, when received, you KNOW you had not before. And now you have this life. This life is a Person, and indwelling and living Person.

Here:

"In this we KNOW that we abide in Him and He in us, that He has given to us of His Spirit." (1 John 3:13)

We said "Lord Jesus, I receive you Lord into my heart. Cleanse me of all my sins in your precious blood. Thank you Lord Jesus."

And we KNOW that we abide in Him because of the Spirit which He has given us. That Spirit is the "life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) . "... the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit"

For God to give life, to give the ZOE - the divine life is to give us a Person. That Person is simultaneously Jesus Christ and our own new life, our own new beginning.

"So then if anyone is in Christ, [he is] a new creation. The old things have passed away; behold, they have become new." (2 Cor. 5:17)

A man or woman knows when Christ has come into them and they have a new life, a new beginning, they have been made a new creation. No one can rob them of the assurance.

" ... we know that He abides in us by the Spirit whom He gave to us." (1 John 3:24)

To be in doubt of eternal salvation is not humility. It is not humble to not be sure. You should be sure to say "Because I know that the life giving Spirit of Jesus Christ has come into my heart, I know that I have forgiveness. I know that I have eternal life."

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:8)

So Jesus Himself is the assurance of eternal life. Jesus Himself is the garuantee. For again John writes:

"He who has the Son has the life, and he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

I have written these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:12,13)

Do not let Satan the Devil deceive you to think wavering, hesitation, unclarity about this, and being unsure about this, is some kind of noble humilty. Do not think "I am too proud to say with John that I KNOW that I have the Son and the life and the eternal life."

If you opened your heart to receive Christ, you stand upon His word, fact comes first. Feeling comes after fact.

Beware of the devilish doubt cloaked as humility.

Great points, Jaywill.

He was a man who fit the prophetic writtings of a saviour to cum. No super-powers enabled. No son of God but a real person nonetheless.

Originally posted by Redrocket
He was a man who fit the prophetic writtings of a saviour to cum. No super-powers enabled. No son of God but a real person nonetheless.

geez! a real person? some-what made up what with the virgin birth and all wouldn't you say?

Originally posted by Redrocket
He was a man who fit the prophetic writtings of a saviour to cum. No super-powers enabled. No son of God but a real person nonetheless.

Jesus was not the Son of God ? Being a real person is verses being the Son of God ?

Where did you get this idea? Surely you didn't get it from the New Testament.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
geez! a real person? some-what made up what with the virgin birth and all wouldn't you say?

That is one of the many lies that bible contains just like a world wide flood.

The Bible doesn't contain any lies.

Jesus is full God and Man.

Originally posted by daniel58
The Bible doesn't contain any lies.

Jesus is full God and Man.

This is the reliable truth. Jesus is indeed full God and full Man.

And He is the Head of a Body of sons of God who are also the union of God and man.

"Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been manifested what we will be. We know that if He is manifested, we will be like Him bvecause we will see Him even as He is." (1 John 3:2)


"For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and through whom are all things, in leading many sons into glory, to make the Author of their salvation perfect through sufferings." (Heb.2:10)

We who have received Christ will be like Him because He is leading "many sons" into the glorious expression of the Divine Being.

"For we know that the whole creation groans together and travails in pain together until now. And not only so, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan in ourselves, eagery awaiting sonship, the redemption of our body." (Rom. 8:23)

We shall be like Him for our bodies are awaiting transfiguration into a body of glory. This will be sonship. The believers are eagerly awaiting sonship and creation itself is awaiting this wonderful enviromental release.

" ... the creation itself will also be freed from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God." (8:21)

"For the anxious watching of the creation eagerly awaits the revelation of the sons of God." (8:19)

The God-Man Jesus Christ by incarnation and resurrection is mass propducing many sons of God as God-men by salvation and glorification. God desires that Jesus would be the Firstborn among many BROTHERS.

" ... those whom He foreknew He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers;

And those whom He predestinated, these he also called; and those whom He called, these He also justified; and those whom He justified, these He also glorified." (Rom. 8:29,30)

We may join Jesus is the release of the environment from the corruption of the Fall. We may expedite this great day by turning our whole soul over to Jesus for the saturation of the Holy Spirit.

What a life's cause to live and die for !
What a cause to be resurrected and glorified for.