@kellyjay saidIf you claim a supernatural phenomenon happened, then that is your opinion. Neither of us can objectively demonstrate "the truth" of it.
When something happened, it happened; opinions don't matter.
Your claim that it is a "historical truth" is your opinion.
If a Muslim claims Gabriel talked to Muhammed in a cave and passed on explicit messages from God, and then he says "When something happened, it happened; opinions don't matter", his claim ~ that Gabriel talked to Muhammed in a cave is a "historical truth" ~ is just his opinion, as would be your claim that "he didn't".
@fmf saidThere was this guy born a manger because his parents had nowhere else to go,
Well, supernatural causality is what we are talking about. The claims you make about "historical truths" related to supernatural causality are just your opinions. The same goes for mine.
a preacher of righteousness, who was publically killed in the most gruesome and
humiliating way possible. He had a small handful of followers that changed the
world, these guys refused to recant their stories about Him, which cost most of
them their lives, had they been lying, why would they die for a lie, they knew was
lie?
We count time by Him, BC, and AD; more books are written about Him than any
other, the best-selling book ever, the Bible, has Him as the central figure in it, God
becoming a man, and you claim there is no evidence; these are only my opinion?
You are willfully blind.
@kellyjay saidYes, I am familiar with the Christian narrative with regard to Jesus and the success of Christianity over the last 2,000 years, but these things don't demonstrate that supernatural causality is a "historical truth".
There was this guy born a manger because his parents had nowhere else to go,
a preacher of righteousness, who was publically killed in the most gruesome and
humiliating way possible. He had a small handful of followers that changed the
world, these guys refused to recant their stories about Him, which cost most of
them their lives, had they been lying, why would they die ...[text shortened]... al figure in it, God
becoming a man, and you claim there is no evidence; these are only my opinion?
@fmf saidAs I said, the moral compasses within man all point in different directions, comparing
I don't think I am "willfully blind", KellyJay. And I do not think, nor do I claim, that you are "willfully blind" just because your beliefs are different from mine.
yourself to me or anyone else does nothing; our points of view are not fixed on
anything, they go as we want them to, or we can even ignore them or turn them on
and off if we desire.
@kellyjay saidIf you believe that Jesus rose from the dead, then that is your prerogative. Whatever other beliefs that you have that stem from your belief that Jesus rose from the dead are also your prerogative. If they give you solace and create meaning in your life, so be it.
I guess rising from the dead doesn't mean what it used to.
But the beliefs of 1.8 billion Muslims don't make the supposed supernatural appearance of Gabriel to Muhammed in a cave a "historical truth" just as the beliefs of 2.2 billion Christians don't make the supposed supernatural resurrection of Jesus a "historical truth".
The only objective "historical truths" here are that Muslims and Christians have been making these claims for hundreds of years.
@kellyjay saidIf this is the moral judgement that you make pertaining to my moral compass ~ through the perspective that your moral compass equips you with ~ then I am fine with it.
As I said, the moral compasses within man all point in different directions, comparing
yourself to me or anyone else does nothing; our points of view are not fixed on
anything, they go as we want them to, or we can even ignore them or turn them on
and off if we desire.