@moonbus saidI was touched by the love God has shown us at a great cost to Himself, the exact opposite of what you are looking for.
That doesn’t answer the question, what made you believe it, whether you would still believe it if there were no promise of eternal life for you.
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@kellyjay saidHe knew he would rise again three days later. Not much of a sacrifice, was it? I too would sacrifice anything if I knew I’d get it back three days later. A mortal who gives his life for his comrades’ lives and who stays dead has my respect. Now, answer my question, would you still believe if the resurrection applied only to Jesus, not to you?
I was touched by the love God has shown us at a great cost to Himself, the exact opposite of what you are looking for.
@kellyjay saidI will tell you a story that touches me. Bodhisattva reached enlightenment and was about to enter nirvana (Buddhist heaven) when he noticed that many other creatures were not ready to enter heaven. He vowed to remain in the incarnated state and help others to become enlightened. He vowed to remain in the incarnated state until every other life form had attained enlightenment and entered heaven, and he would go last. Now that is a sacrifice I can respect.
I was touched by the love God has shown us at a great cost to Himself, the exact opposite of what you are looking for.
@moonbus saidHe took on every sin we have ever done, the full guilt we should be held accountable for Jesus paid in full.! I believe you are correct that death wasn’t the concern, neither the suffering and shame Jesus endured on the cross, but my sins where I should stand before God in, Jesus took that. He did that knowing some will still not care and continue to reject Him, so what He did was demonstrate His love for us while we were yet sinners opposed to Him, not because of anything we could do to endear us to God.
He knew he would rise again three days later. Not much of a sacrifice, was it? I too would sacrifice anything if I knew I’d get it back three days later. A mortal who gives his life for his comrades’ lives and who stays dead has my respect. Now, answer my question, would you still believe if the resurrection applied only to Jesus, not to you?
A single man laying down his life wouldn’t pay for the sins of the whole world, but the blood of the Word of God made flesh did!
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@kellyjay saidTo say he "took on every sin we have ever done" doesn't really mean anything. Did he "take on" the "full guilt" for the Holocaust, for example? As a notion, it doesn't bear much scrutiny, the fact it is endlessly trotted-out dogma notwithstanding. And how can it [whatever "it" is supposed to be] be described as "sacrifice" if he lost nothing and "paid" nothing?
He took on every sin we have ever done, the full guilt we should be held accountable for Jesus paid in full.
@fmf saidYou got him there space cadet troll.
To say he "took on every sin we have ever done" doesn't really mean anything. Did he "take on" the "full guilt" for the Holocaust, for example? As a notion, it doesn't bear much scrutiny, the fact it is endlessly trotted-out dogma notwithstanding. And how can it [whatever "it" is supposed to be] be described as "sacrifice" if he lost nothing and "paid" nothing?
@fmf saidThanks for your opinion again!
To say he "took on every sin we have ever done" doesn't really mean anything. Did he "take on" the "full guilt" for the Holocaust, for example? As a notion, it doesn't bear much scrutiny, the fact it is endlessly trotted-out dogma notwithstanding. And how can it [whatever "it" is supposed to be] be described as "sacrifice" if he lost nothing and "paid" nothing?
@kellyjay saidI am well grounded in the theological dogma, KellyJay, little surprise there after 25+ years of being a Christian. Simply blurting out that I supposedly don't "have an inkling what it means" is about as feeble as can be.
The thing is I doubt anyone who rejects God can even have an inkling what it means that the sinless Savior becoming sin means. Since they reject both God and sin.
