@fmf said
Would you concur with this proposition?

Generally, theists believe [with varying degrees of certainty] in their God figures because, having sought what they think is true and real, they perceive that their own conclusions / deductions make more sense to them than any of the alternatives.

Does that summarise your view?

Or this?

Generally, theists believe [with varying degrees of certainty] in their God figures because, having absorbed and internalized what people think is true and real from their human environment, they perceive that the tenets of their faith resonate more than any of the alternative religious traditions.

What about this variant KellyJay?

@moonbus said
Reality is what it is, is what you're saying, Yes, that is true, but that is a) trivial, and b) not the topic of this thread.

The topic of this thread is what factors contribute to belief in supernatural things (e.g., Creationism, the Young Earth Hypothesis, the transcendent existence of a Great Big Tooth Fairy who grants immortality to good boys and girls and torments bad ...[text shortened]... eternal Lake of Fire, etc.) for which evidence is either altogether lacking or entirely disputable.

You are looking at how something is done, and I'm saying it matters not if we
also don't address the root cause of why. There is an event, and we see the
result. We can start looking at the factors of the event and the systems, but if
we do not look seriously at the root causes, we treat the symptoms and never
address the root cause. Understanding why gives the only clear insight into
the reasons things are being done; the how are nothing but systems; they
can manifest themselves in numerous ways given many scenarios.

We need to believe, and we need to put our faith in what we think is true! At
the root, there is a need to be a part of the universe as it is, but if that the
the universe isn't exactly as we like; we are left with choices, accept it as it is, or
try to color it the way we want, the how we go about that are referenced in
earlier posts define reality out of our reality by suggesting it's like this and not
that, put some other authority above anything that agrees with us, thereby
belittling anything contrary to what we want. We can hate those with opposing
views so they can be belittled, nullifying the validity of anything they may say by
casting them out of our 'herd,' so to speak.

@fmf said
Would you concur with this proposition?

Generally, theists believe [with varying degrees of certainty] in their God figures because, having sought what they think is true and real, they perceive that their own conclusions / deductions make more sense to them than any of the alternatives.

Does that summarise your view?

Generally, everyone believes what they want with varying degrees of certainty,
no matter what they put at the top of their root cause, if they believe in a top
down, or at the bottom if they believe in a bottom-up approach.

Some may trust in chance, others God, or gods, with others simply choosing to
ignore all probabilities of there being a prime mover or reason for all things.

Ignoring all of the possibilities, you don't have to think about any reason, let along
one you don't want to be true, especially one you don't want.

@kellyjay said
You are looking at how something is done, and I'm saying it matters not if we
also don't address the root cause of why. There is an event, and we see the
result. We can start looking at the factors of the event and the systems, but if
we do not look seriously at the root causes, we treat the symptoms and never
address the root cause. Understanding why gives the only clea ...[text shortened]... d, nullifying the validity of anything they may say by
casting them out of our 'herd,' so to speak.

So that’s OP option a) you believe what you believe because it seems true to you. Thank you for contributing.

@moonbus said
So that’s OP option a) you believe what you believe because it seems true to you. Thank you for contributing.

Shallow!

@kellyjay said
Ignoring all of the possibilities, you don't have to think about any reason, let along
one you don't want to be true, especially one you don't want.

Who is "ignoring all of the possibilities"?

@kellyjay said
Generally, everyone believes what they want with varying degrees of certainty,
no matter what they put at the top of their root cause, if they believe in a top
down, or at the bottom if they believe in a bottom-up approach.

And this, you say, is why theists believe what they believe, including you? They just choose to place their trust in deities [to provide an explanation - that they "trust" - of the universe and their place in it]?

@kellyjay said
Shallow!

You couldn't, yourself, be any more shallow than trotting out your [i]'it doesn't matter what anyone believes, it's only the truth that matters'[/] riff ad nauseam, even on a thread that is explicitly NOT about that.

@divegeester said
When you are here mentioning “dislikes” and presumably “likes” are you talking about people using their moral compass in a rational way to make decisions?

When you are here mentioning “correct” and presumably “incorrect” and people “figuring out” isn’t that people also using their moral compass in a rational way to make those decisions?

Kellyjay… ??

@kellyjay said
Shallow!

Yes, quite. Exactly as shallow as your contention that your beliefs are true because you believe that that is how reality really is. Ted Kaczynksi made the same claim, you know, in his infamous Unabomber Manifesto: he also thinks his beliefs are true because that's how reality really is. Anders Breivik, ditto. Logically it's a petitio principii, but, psychologically, no doubt seems quite compelling to shallow thinkers.

@moonbus said
Yes, quite. Exactly as shallow as your contention that your beliefs are true because you believe that that is how reality really is. Ted Kaczynksi made the same claim, you know, in his infamous Unabomber Manifesto: he also thinks his beliefs are true because that's how reality really is. Anders Breivik, ditto. Logically it's a petitio principii, but, psychologically, no doubt seems quite compelling to shallow thinkers.

My contention is looking at reality, finding those things we believe are true, and
connecting them with all other truths we know. Those things that don't fit together
means we have not fully understood something and need to investigate further,
and you have reduced this down to, you believe, so it is; that is what I called
shallow, a retort without reasoning! If you cannot give cause for your beliefs, if
there is no reasoning involved, then reason has nothing to do with the
foundational causes in your worldview beliefs. You are not engaging with reason;
you are using something else.

You do something different, you feel your way through, or do you ponder the
meaning behind all you look at all ignoring those parts you dislike and just focus
on those you do, and with that, you find this is true or that, just because?

@kellyjay said
My contention is looking at reality, finding those things we believe are true, and
connecting them with all other truths we know. Those things that don't fit together
means we have not fully understood something and need to investigate further,
and you have reduced this down to, you believe, so it is; that is what I called
shallow, a retort without reasoning! If you cann ...[text shortened]... dislike and just focus
on those you do, and with that, you find this is true or that, just because?

This isn’t about me. But just FYI, I don’t believe in supernatural causality.

@moonbus said
This isn’t about me. But just FYI, I don’t believe in supernatural causality.

The reasons backing that up are?

@kellyjay said
The reasons backing that up are?

I don’t need reasons for not believing in the Tooth Fairy, kobolds, elves, ectoplasm, magic, alien abductions, werewolves, vampires, Zeus, Quetzlquatl, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Ahura Mazda, Osiris, Shiva, the God of Abraham, or supernatural causality in any other form whatever. The burden of proof is on those who believe such fantastical things exist.

@moonbus said
I don’t need reasons for not believing in the Tooth Fairy, kobolds, elves, ectoplasm, magic, alien abductions, werewolves, vampires, Zeus, Quetzlquatl, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Osiris, Shiva, the God of Abraham, or supernatural causality in any other form whatever. The burden of proof is on those who believe such things exist.

So you have nothing, which is what I said; if your complaint isn't reasoned, then
no reason is not going to change your point of view.