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Originally posted by robbie carrobieevidence nil? are you saying dianetics is made up?
evidence nil
Have you read Hubbards book, I have, i found it in a laundrette when i was a student and it was slightly more interesting than watching the washing go round.
no, its never interested me. i must admit that i went to the cinema to watch the movie though. it was so bad it was funny, especially when the cavemen start flying f-16 fighters.
Originally posted by stellspalfieI am saying that you have produced no evidence of this actually happening. what movie?
evidence nil? are you saying dianetics is made up?
no, its never interested me. i must admit that i went to the cinema to watch the movie though. it was so bad it was funny, especially when the cavemen start flying f-16 fighters.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieif you accept that there is such a thing as dianetics then why do i need to prove it exists. this is all very strange.
I am saying that you have produced no evidence of this actually happening. what movie?
i think it was called battlefield earth.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSeems less impressive when you can just cast out those who won't fully submit to the organization's authority. That's not accommodating difference. That's forcing homogeneity.
its a matter of perspective, one worldwide brother and sister hood, you cant touch this, we have solved problems that plague mankind through the application of Biblical principles. There is no national, educational, ethnic, cultural, economic, ideological, religious or political divide, the major causes of conflict throughout the earth. We are beau ...[text shortened]... er Republicans and Loyalists, once bitter enemies? Serb, Croat and Albanian? Greeks and Turks?
There would also be no ideological divide in a society full of coma patients, but for some reason that doesn't seem like an improvement either.
Originally posted by SwissGambitFirst we don't "cast out" anyone. By using such words it is obvious you don't understand this issue at all. Oh well.
Seems less impressive when you can just cast out those who won't fully submit to the organization's authority. That's not accommodating difference. That's forcing homogeneity.
There would also be no ideological divide in a society full of coma patients, but for some reason that doesn't seem like an improvement either.
Secondly if we were still under the old testiment or Mosiac laws, ones that you are referring to that may be removed form the "association of brothers" because of some serious sin such as fornication, homosexuality which is the same, being a thief, etc, would have been executed before Jesus did away with those laws.
So now instead of executing someone who has broken his laws, we now go thru a few meetings with the elders, where a very heart felt and wanting to help attitude prevails to try and help that person come to their senses with God's ways and commands they may not be removed from the congregation. In fact most are not.
So this "casting out" as you say is not done without a very deep problem that person has in not wanting to keep the congregation clean and with a bad influnace on it.
I don't expect you to understand as most don't that don't take the time to listen and reason on it.
Why Some Are Disfellowshipped
God’s servants study the Bible and Christian publications. Jehovah’s standards are discussed at their meetings, assemblies, and conventions. So Christians are in a position p. 27to know what Jehovah requires of them. Disfellowshipping takes place only if a member of the congregation unrepentantly engages in gross sin.
Consider a Scriptural example of disfellowshipping. The congregation in Corinth tolerated “such fornication as [was] not even among the nations, that a wife a certain man [had] of his father.” Paul urged the Corinthians to “hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved.” (1 Corinthians 5:1-5) When disfellowshipped and thus handed over to Satan, the sinner was again part of the Devil’s world. (1 John 5:19) His expulsion removed an evil fleshly element from the congregation and preserved its godly “spirit,” or dominant attitude.—2 Timothy 4:22; 1 Corinthians 5:11-13.
Before a very long time had passed, Paul urged the Christians in Corinth to reinstate the wrongdoer. Why? It was so that they might not be “overreached by Satan,” said the apostle. The sinner had evidently repented and cleaned up his life. (2 Corinthians 2:8-11) If the Corinthians refused to reinstate the repentant man, Satan would overreach them in that they would be as hard and unforgiving as the Devil wanted them to be. Very likely, they soon did “forgive and comfort” the penitent man.—2 Corinthians 2:5-7.
What is accomplished by disfellowshipping? It keeps Jehovah’s holy name clear of reproach and protects the fine reputation of his people. (1 Peter 1:14-16) Removing an unrepentant wrongdoer from the congregation upholds God’s standards and preserves the congregation’s spiritual cleanness. It may also bring the unrepentant one to his senses.
If a person that has been disfellowshipped turns to anger and hate for this dicipline , this would be a sign of their heart condition and should not be involved with the JW's? Probably....
Originally posted by galveston75Hmm...and yet you understood perfectly what it meant, since you just posted a link about Disfellowshipping.
First we don't "cast out" anyone. By using such words it is obvious you don't understand this issue at all. Oh well.
Secondly if we were still under the old testiment or Mosiac laws, ones that you are referring to that may be removed form the "association of brothers" because of some serious sin such as fornication, homosexuality which is the same, bei ...[text shortened]... you to understand as most don't that don't take the time to listen and reason on it.
Sorry if my choice of words painted too vivid a picture.
Originally posted by galveston75You aren't telling me much I didn't know, except that you left out that the 'crime' leading to disfellowship can be a mere failure to convert to JW along with the rest of the family. You don't exactly have to do your mom to get kicked out.
Just taking my time to explain if your are interested.....
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Originally posted by galveston75If anyone wants information on your cult's disfellowshipping practices, they can read this:
Why Some Are Disfellowshipped
God’s servants study the Bible and Christian publications. Jehovah’s standards are discussed at their meetings, assemblies, and conventions. So Christians are in a position p. 27to know what Jehovah requires of them. Disfellowshipping takes place only if a member of the congregation unrepentantly engages in gross sin. ...[text shortened]... would be a sign of their heart condition and should not be involved with the JW's? Probably....
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/disfellowship-shunning.php
There is absolutely no justification for the extent of socially stigmatic shunning that these practices involve, and all your blather notwithstanding, it is just something that your cult has evolved for the control of its members and in-group mentality.
It's shameful. And, further, the same sorts of socially stigmatic shunning practices extend, as a matter of organizational protocol, to those who voluntarily disassociate, completely regardless of why they would choose to disassociate. Like I said: shameful.
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Originally posted by LemonJelloactually its Biblical making your assertion 'something that your cult has evolved for the control of its members', ludicrous, unsubstantiated and nothing more than the expression of an ignorant and prejudiced mind, but hey, why change the habits of a life time. Keep sucking those lemons and watch out when scuba diving!
If anyone wants information on your cult's disfellowshipping practices, they can read this:
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/disfellowship-shunning.php
There is absolutely no justification for the extent of socially stigmatic shunning that these practices involve, and all your blather notwithstanding, it is just something that your cult has evolved ciate, completely regardless of why they would choose to disassociate. Like I said: shameful.
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWe had a discussion with regard to whether the practice of shunning is supported by scripture, as I recall you failed to make a decent case.
actually its Biblical making your assertion 'something that your cult has evolved for the control of its members', ludicrous, unsubstantiated and nothing more than the expression of an ignorant and prejudiced mind, but hey, why change the habits of a life time. Keep sucking those lemons and watch out when scuba diving!
I remember a verse with an instruction to 'keep admonishing someone as a brother', I put the question to you - how is someone supposed to keep admonishing a brother if they are not allowed to talk to them?
Originally posted by Proper KnobFailed? Failed? are you sure it was me? Failure doesn't seem to resonate with any memories, the only things i have failed at, were trying to prove my great theory that materialism has resulted in family breakdown and missing Sunday dinners together and trying to prove to Penguin that atheism has teachings.
We had a discussion with regard to whether the practice of shunning is supported by scripture, as I recall you failed to make a decent case.
I remember a verse with an instruction to 'keep admonishing someone as a brother', I put the question to you - how is someone supposed to keep admonishing a brother if they are not allowed to talk to them?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNope.
actually its Biblical making your assertion 'something that your cult has evolved for the control of its members', ludicrous, unsubstantiated and nothing more than the expression of an ignorant and prejudiced mind, but hey, why change the habits of a life time. Keep sucking those lemons and watch out when scuba diving!
Originally posted by stellspalfieNo, no, no.
with dianetics scientology believes they have revolutionized the way we look at mental health. they believe that it is the cutting edge of psychology.
I read Dianetics also in my last year of college, and I was a psychology major well on my way to my BS. In fact, I was close to writing a paper on it, when other events in my life took precedence.
Dianetics, as a theory, is not wholly bad. There are many in psychology who agree with the basics of the idea today. Because of the rise of scientology, the whole idea fell from favor, and from serious research.
Scientology was L. Ron's idea of making a church to escape the tax man. Period. Today they try to connect Dianetics into it as a way to wring thousands of dollars from acolytes, but realistically, the two have nothing in common. Scientology was simply L. Ron whoring out Dianetics to make some tax-free money.