Originally posted by AThousandYoung58 Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” 59 Therefore they picked up stones to hurl [them] at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple.
What's the official JW Bible say?
http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/joh/chapter_008.htm
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Originally posted by menace71But In John 8:24 the JW's NWT Bible translates the Greek "ego eimi" as
58 Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” 59 Therefore they picked up stones to hurl [them] at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple.
http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/joh/chapter_008.htm
"I am [he]". They are not consistant in how they translate it. Who
do they think the [he] refers to if not God?
23 So he went on to say to them: “YOU are from the realms below; I am from
the realms above. YOU are from this world; I am not from this world.
24 Therefore I said to YOU, YOU will die in YOUR sins. For if YOU do not
believe that I am [he], YOU will die in YOUR sins.”
http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/joh/chapter_008.htm
P.S. I think here Jesus had be be speaking as God and other places He
speaks as man. For as a man He would not say what He did in verse 23.
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Originally posted by menace71where does Jesus say that he is God almighty incarnate, answer, nowhere, end of the
You don't care because you don't like the truth because maybe it hurts just a bit.
The context of what Jesus said and the Jews reaction no matter in the Greek or English is interesting to say the least.
Manny
line for you, RJblind and divesgeester, either produce the reference or stop the
charade.
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Originally posted by RJHindswhere does he claim that he is God Almighty incarnate, you have stated that it is true,
But In John 8:24 the JW's NWT Bible translates the Greek "ego eimi" as
"I am [he]". They are not consistant in how they translate it. Who
do they think the [he] refers to if not God?
23 So he went on to say to them: “YOU are from the realms below; I am from
the realms above. YOU are from this world; I am not from this world.
24 Therefore I said to ...[text shortened]... and other places He
speaks as man. For as a man He would not say what He did in verse 23.
therefore where does he say it? why do you profess to make things up that aren't
actually in the Bible, answer, because all you have is what you have gleaned from the
traditions of your church. Its pathetic, it really is.
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-Removed-where does he claim that he is God Almighty incarnate, you have stated that it is true,
therefore where does he say it? a single reference please. what Jesus actually claimed,
(John 14:28) . . .If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the
Father, because the Father is greater than I am.
(John 5:19) . . .The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only
what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things
the Son also does in like manner.
(John 5:30) . . .I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. . .
what Paul states,
(1 Corinthians 15:28) . . .But when all things will have been subjected to him, then
the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things
to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
(1 Corinthians 11:3) . . .But I want you to know that the head of every man is the
Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is
God.
(Philippians 2:5-6) . . .Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus,
who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure,
namely, that he should be equal to God. . .
so there we have it folks, the Christ subjects himself to himself? is that what the
trinitarians would have us believe, does it seem logical, even reasonable to you?
The son can do nothing of his own initiative, hard for someone if they are the same
person, again hardly logical or reasonable, and finally Christ own words, the father
is greater than I, making a mockery of the trinitarian false assertion that Christ is
co-equal with God. Paul goes even further is stating tat the Christ subjects himself
to God even after his resurrection and ascension to heaven, oh dear, not good for
out trinitarian friends, that he has a head and is in a position of relative subjection
and that he never even considered that he is equal to God.
Conclusion, the trinitarians know these things yet wilfully ignore them because they
contradict their one dimensional dogmatic preconceptions as to the nature of the
Christ.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWe have given you more than a single reference and you will not accept any
where does he claim that he is God Almighty incarnate, you have stated that it is true,
therefore where does he say it? a single reference please.
of them for you are blind to who [he] is in your own beloved Watchtower
Bible. How many times must Jesus say I AM HE for you to realize HE IS GOD?
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Originally posted by RJHindsyou have not given one reference where Christ states that he is Almighty God
We have given you more than a single reference and you will not accept any
of them for you are blind to who [he] is in your own beloved Watchtower
Bible. How many times must Jesus say I AM HE for you to realize HE IS GOD?
incarnate, because it doesn't exist, you made it up! its a lie.
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAlthough it is not in those exact words. John identifies Him as God
you have not given one reference where Christ states that he is Almighty God
incarnate, because it doesn't exist, you made it up! its a lie.
becoming flesh in the first Chapter and Paul says that He is the
fullness of the Godhead in bodily form in Colossians chapter 2. The
definiton of incarnate is the union of divinity with humanity and
that is what these verses are saying. Thomas and others recognize
Him as Lord and God. Even God the Father calls Him God and
commands the angels to worship him in the Psalms as is pointed
out by the writer of the letter to the Hebrews, which is probably
Paul. Jesus, Himself says that "I and the Father are one" and "If you
have seen Me you have seen the Father." And as we have just pointed
out in reference to the God of Abraham in John 8:24 and 58 he told
the Jews, "I AM [HE]. And since there is only one God, who else
could He be but the mighty God incarnate or as you say the almighty
God incarnate. He warned you that if you do not believe that I AM
[HE] you will die in you sins. I think you should take heed for that
seems to me to be a very serious warning.
Just saying.
Originally posted by RJHindsYes, I certainly appreciate the time you are taking to reply. Your reply shows me that you did not examine the context in which Christ said .."I am he"
I Hope you appeciate the trouble I went through to explain this to you.
If you don't then never ask me another question.
And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world;
I am not of this world. Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for
if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” ...[text shortened]... to the World to make Him known and to save all that will believe on Him.
So lets look at the context. From the beginning of John there was some discussion of Who is Christ. First they thought John the Baptist was Christ the Messiah but John said he was not Christ ..
Joh_1:20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
Then someone claimed to have found Christ ..
Joh_1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
Others claimed to have seen him ..
Joh_4:29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?
Joh_4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
Joh_7:41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
So do you understand the context?
People in the first 8 Chapters of John are wondering IF CHRIST THE MESSIAH has come. Take your time and read the many many references to
Who is Christ,
Where is Christ,
Is the Messiah come.
I found him
I found the Christ ...
So when Christ says in John 8 .. "I AM HE" ... Who do you think he meant ??? Certainly not anyone else but who the people were asking about ... JESUS CHRIST THE MESSIAH. And throughout the same chapter its all about his Father sent him, he came from above, sent by God his Father .
If people are asking where is "George W. Bush" and someone answers and says "I am He". That person has to be George W. Bush, That person cannot be George H.W. Bush.
Even after that they persisted and wanted a straight answer ;
Joh_10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
So your subsequent analysis that if you dont believe that Christ is God you will die in your sin is plain wrong. Christ is saying clearly that if you dont believe that he is the Christ who is come then you will die in your sins. And this is the same message throughout the teachings all the Apostles.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou still keep forgetting that some references are to his Godhood and
where does he claim that he is God Almighty incarnate, you have stated that it is true,
therefore where does he say it? a single reference please. what Jesus actually claimed,
(John 14:28) . . .If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the
Father, because [b]the Father is greater than I am.
(John 5:19) . . .The So ...[text shortened]... hey
contradict their one dimensional dogmatic preconceptions as to the nature of the
Christ.
others to His manhood. You would not be so confused, if you just tried
to understand what the trinity doctrine actually says and accept it.
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Originally posted by Rajk999Christ is the anointed one. Jesus was this anointed one and this was
Yes, I certainly appreciate the time you are taking to reply. Your reply shows me that you did not examine the context in which Christ said ..[b]"I am he"
So lets look at the context. From the beginning of John there was some discussion of Who is Christ. First they thought John the Baptist was Christ the Messiah but John said he was not Christ ..
e in your sins. And this is the same message throughout the teachings all the Apostles.[/b]
demonstrated at His baptism by John. For God the Father and God the
Holy Spirit were there to anoint Him. The Father even declared from
heaven that this was His beloved Son at that baptismal anointing.
The Christ is God the Son. Don't you get that? It was God the Son
the was sent to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and then again to Moses,
who He gave the name "I AM" which was not known by Abraham or
anyone before Moses. Remember, no man has seen God the Father
at any time. It is God the Son who was sent to declare Him. This name
"I AM" is "YAH" in Hebrew. That is why the Hebrew praise "HalleluYAH"
is translated into English as "Praise the Lord". "Hallelu" is the praise
part and "YAH" is the name of the one being praised. This Lord is
God the Son. This is why the Jews wanted to stone Him because they
felt He was making Himself out to be God and the coming Messiah.
Christ is the Greek word for the "Messiah" which means the anointed
one of YAH. See the "iah" that "i' is the "y" sound of the Hebrew.
As has been pointed out by others the prophecy says, among other
things, that He would be called "Mighty God". God came in the flesh to
save His people. Jesus is Yahshua in Hebrew and means "YAH saves"
or in English "God saves" or "The Lord saves". I hope this is clearer
than mud. If it is not, then I suppose the Holy Spirit is not ready for
you to understand.
But the Jews did not want to stone Him for using bad grammar as
robbie thinks. He was claiming the name of God for Himself as well
as claiming to be the Messiah that was prophecied to come.
4 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999Christ is the anointed one. Jesus was this anointed one and this was
Yes, I certainly appreciate the time you are taking to reply. Your reply shows me that you did not examine the context in which Christ said ..[b]"I am he"
So lets look at the context. From the beginning of John there was some discussion of Who is Christ. First they thought John the Baptist was Christ the Messiah but John said he was not Christ ..
e in your sins. And this is the same message throughout the teachings all the Apostles.[/b]
demonstrated at His baptism by John. For God the Father and God the
Holy Spirit were there to anoint Him. The Father even declared from
heaven that this was His beloved Son at that baptismal anointing.
The Christ is God the Son. Don't you get that? It was God the Son
the was sent to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and then again to Moses,
who He gave the name "I AM" which was not known by Abraham or
anyone before Moses. Remember, no man has seen God the Father
at any time. It is God the Son who was sent to declare Him. This name
"I AM" is "YAH" in Hebrew. That is why the Hebrew praise "HalleluYAH"
is translated into English as "Praise the Lord". "Hallelu" is the praise
part and "YAH" is the name of the one being praised. This Lord is
God the Son. This is why the Jews wanted to stone Him because they
felt He was making Himself out to be God and the coming Messiah.
Christ is the Greek word for the "Messiah" which means the anointed
one of YAH. See the "iah" that "i' is the "y" sound of the Hebrew.
As has been pointed out by others the prophecy says, among other
things, that He would be called "Mighty God". God came in the flesh to
save His people. Jesus is Yahshua in Hebrew and means "YAH saves"
or in English "God saves" or "The Lord saves". I hope this is clearer
than mud. If it is not, then I suppose the Holy Spirit is not ready for
you to understand.
But the Jews did not want to stone Him for using bad grammar as
robbie thinks. He was claiming the name of God for Himself as well
as claiming to be the Messiah that was prophecied to come.
P.S. Maybe you will see God the Son (the Son of God) is George W. Bush
and God the Father is George H.W. Bush. Ha, Ha. 😀
Originally posted by RJHindswhy have you ignored every one of those references, the father s greater than I, had
You still keep forgetting that some references are to his Godhood and
others to His manhood. You would not be so confused, if you just tried
to understand what the trinity doctrine actually says and accept it.
to do with his manhood, i dont think so for you cannot escape that fact that after he is
resurrected and ascends to the heavens he subjects himself to God, you zoobs are
practically busted.