10 Mar 09
Originally posted by ScriabinI agree with you. She is one charismatic lady.
wow. that is just so wrong. She's a great human being. If I ever met her I wouldn't ask for an autograph -- I'd ask her to let me just bask in her smile for a bit. She makes one feel as though there might be something in humans worthwhile. And she is so funny. I wish Tina Fey and Tracy Morgan would bring her on their show as a regular guest star. Probably ...[text shortened]... ord her. Think about it, imagine Alec Baldwin imitating the Queen and she catches him at it.
And here you are proving my point I was making to FMF. You naturally dont really care about the few nice things we have here but are more concerned when things go wrong. FMF seems to think that we should be interested in ...Indonesia (being) perhaps a paradigm of moderate Islam .. and ignore the atrocities being carried out all over the world in the name of Islam.
10 Mar 09
Originally posted by FMFRubbish.
.. are almost entirely based on what is going on in Iran and Saudi Arabia. ....
Iran
Saudi Arabia
Denmark - Mohammed cartoon controversy
Sudan - calling for the death of a school teacher that called her teddy bear Mohammed.
Afganistan - beheadings/stonings for apostacy and adultery.
Indonesia - killing a 3 Christian schoolgirls.
.. are Just a few examples
There are literally hundreds of incidents that I can list if I do the research.
All over the world Islam has demonstrated that it is an intolerant and violent religion.
10 Mar 09
Originally posted by Rajk999You seem to have mentioned it over and over again. Do you get a separate prejudice point each time, I wonder. And what can you cash them in for? One incident 4 years ago. And one looked upon with absolute horror and condemnation by about 203,950,000 Muslims.
Rubbish.
Indonesia - killing a 3 Christian schoolgirls.
10 Mar 09
Originally posted by Rajk999Where have I ever said anything remotely like this in any of my posts? Ignore atrocities? Where have I suggested such a thing?
FMF seems to think that we should be interested in ...Indonesia (being) perhaps a paradigm of moderate Islam .. and ignore the atrocities being carried out all over the world in the name of Islam.
10 Mar 09
Originally posted by Rajk999I am sure that you will quite happily ignore the atrocities all over the world that have been carried out by Christians in the past.
And here you are proving my point I was making to FMF. You naturally dont really care about the few nice things we have here but are more concerned when things go wrong. FMF seems to think that we should be interested in ...Indonesia (being) perhaps a paradigm of moderate Islam .. and ignore the atrocities being carried out all over the world in the name of Islam.
The fact is that unless you can show that all members of a given religion, or at least a very significant majority, behave in a certain way then to characterize all members of that religion in that way is unfair to those who do not fit your characterization. It is especially unreasonable when the majority of the people you are characterizing do not fit your claims. It is even worse that you resort to making up things to support your claims.
10 Mar 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadCan the atrocities carried out by Christians match those carried out by muslims in the last 30 years or so ? NO !
I am sure that you will quite happily ignore the atrocities all over the world that have been carried out by Christians in the past....
Would the teachings of Christ support atrocities. NO.
Does the teachings of Mohammed support atrocities YES.
If you are comparing atrocities carried by Christians and Muslims in the last 500 years, then you are grasping at straws.
Originally posted by Rajk999As a statistical sideshow? Or as some kind of major Thing That's Going On which gives you a woody for your own prejudice?
If you are comparing atrocities carried by Christians and Muslims in the last 500 years, then you are grasping at straws.
Well let's take a look at the 20th century, for example - let's take a look at the killing that went on and see what the role of predominantly Christian and/or non-Muslim countries was, and to what extent Muslim countries account for the tolls.
If Islam is the tradition and belief system of death and destruction, then surely the wholesale slaughters of the 20th century would have been a chance for Muslims to do their killing stuff.
72,000,000 slaughtered - World War II (1939–1945) - no significant Mulsim angle. Mostly 'Christian' countries at each others throats.
20,000,000 slaughtered - World War I (1914–1918) - no significant Muslim angle. Not so different from WWII.
20,000,000 slaughtered - Second Sino-Japanese War (1937–1945) - hard to find a Muslim angle here
9,000,000 slaughtered - Russian Civil War and Foreign Intervention (1917–1921) - no specifically Muslim aspect. The 'Foreign Intervention' was staged by non-Muslim countries.
5,400,000 slaughtered - Second Congo War (1998–2007). No significant Muslim stuff here. Other 'faiths' might have been a factor.
3,500,000 slaughtered - Korean War (1950–1953). Another great slaughter where Mohammedism seemed to have no role.
3,800,000 slaughtered - Vietnam War (1945–1975). Some Muslim hand in the slaughter? Nope.
3,000,000 slaughtered - Bangladesh Liberation War (1971). Bangladesh is the third biggest Muslim country in the world - most of the 3,000,000 killed were Muslims - perhaps you are going to cite this one as a Great 20thC Muslim Slaughter?
1,500,000 slaughtered - Afghan Civil War (1979-89 Soviet phase) Mostly Musilm victims, and many at the hands of Russian Orthodox Christian troops, 50,000 or so of which were lost!
6,000,000 slaughtered - Chinese Civil War (1928–1949) Had nothing to do with Islam.
2,000,000 slaughtered - Mexican Revolution (1910–1920) Probably not a Muslim within a 1,000 miles.
1,000,000 - Iran–Iraq War (1980–1988) Muslim on Muslim - perhaps you are all set to declare this as evidence of "The 20thC: The Century of Islamic Slaughter"?
Here are a few more mass slaughter that have little or no Muslim angle, and yet - in many cases - a big role for Christians and other non-Muslim types...
1,000,000 - Mozambique Civil War (1976–1993)
1,000,000 - Nigerian Civil War (1967–1970)
1,000,000 - Rwandan Civil War (1990-1994)
1,000,000 - Spanish Civil War (1936–1939)
800,000 - Congo Civil War (1991–1997)
500,000 - Angolan Civil War (1975–2002)
500,000 - Ugandan Civil War (1979–1986)
Oh and I almsot forgot:
Indonesia - 3 Christian schoolgirls slaughtered (2005).
I know you place a lot of store on that particular atrocity.
Anyway. Everyone seemed to seize the opportunity to slaughter each other on an industrial scale at various points during the 20thC. Surely it was an atmosphere in which Islam could have lived out its alleged dream and raison d'etre to be the religion of violence and slaughter.
It was a century when they could have literally got away with mass murder.
Where were they?
11 Mar 09
Originally posted by Rajk999My point exactly. If you restrict yourself to a time period or specific group and then apply your conclusions to everyone else not in that time period or group then you are wrong to do so. Why have you chosen the last 30 years specifically? Was it because the last time a Christian did something terrible was 30 years ago?
Can the atrocities carried out by Christians match those carried out by muslims in the last 30 years or so ? NO !
Would the teachings of Christ support atrocities. NO.
Does the teachings of Mohammed support atrocities YES.
If you are comparing atrocities carried by Christians and Muslims in the last 500 years, then you are grasping at straws.
Lets take the Muslims out of the picture. Did any Christians commit atrocities in the last 30 years? If so, can we paint all Christians with that same brush? Why not? Why do you do it with Muslims?
11 Mar 09
Originally posted by scherzoBy your statement of my first paragraph I have to conclude you feel Jihad is not only tolerated but required?
Your first paragraph just rested my case.
Your second paragraph is irrelevant to the discussion, but I would like to say: Zionists, not Jews. I do admire the political views of people like Einstein, Finkelstein, and Chomsky. Guess what .... all Jewish.
11 Mar 09
Originally posted by FMFSo what about Muslims in the year 700 or so? Coming out with jihad to take over half the world at that time, this is a religion of peace then?
As a statistical sideshow? Or as some kind of major Thing That's Going On which gives you a woody for your own prejudice?
Well let's take a look at the 20th century, for example - let's take a look at the killing that went on and see what the role of predominantly Christian and/or non-Muslim countries was, and to what extent Muslim countries account for the t ...[text shortened]... when they could have literally got away with mass murder.
Where were they?
12 Mar 09
Originally posted by sonhouseI can't decide whether your post is an exquisitely ironic sideswipe at Rajk999 or a peculiar condemnation of Islam at the end of the first decade of the 21stC, intended in all earnest.
So what about Muslims in the year 700 or so? Coming out with jihad to take over half the world at that time, this is a religion of peace then?
What are your thoughts on Christendom between, say, 1095 and 1272?
12 Mar 09
Originally posted by Rajk999I think the Book of Revelation could be used to support atrocities, and undoubtedly has. Christians for some reason believe it contains the "teachings" of Christ himself. Christians also subscribe to the Old Testament which, for all practical intents and purposes, is much of a muchness with Al-Quran. You're rather flogging a dead horse here, Rajk999.
Would the teachings of Christ support atrocities.
18 Mar 09
Here is an item that shows why Indonesia is different from some other predominately Muslim countries. There is a clear commitment to law and a modern approach to law, which transcends old cultural norms and overcomes moves toward radical, totalitarian, Islamist tendencies.
Indonesia cleric held for marrying girl, 12
Bride’s father held on suspicion of violating country’s child protection law
The Associated Press
March. 18, 2009
JAKARTA, Indonesia - A Muslim cleric whose marriage to a 12-year-old girl triggered controversy in Indonesia has been detained along with the girl's father on suspicion of violating the child protection law, police said Wednesday.
Cleric Pujiono Cahyo Widianto, 43, wed the girl before thousands of people in Central Java province last August, arguing that he had committed no crime because he intended to wait until she reached puberty before consummating their relationship.
Police Detective Roy Siahaan said the cleric, who runs an Islamic boarding school and several businesses, was officially named a criminal suspect Tuesday following several days of questioning. He has not been charged but is in police detention.
On Wednesday, the girl's father, 36-year-old Suroso, also was detained and named a suspect for giving away the bride. Both Suroso, who like many Indonesians uses only one name, and Widianto could face up to 15 years in prison if found guilty of violating the country's child protection law, which forbids marriage to anyone under 18 years old.
'This is pedophilia'
The cleric's wedding and proclamations that he intended to also marry two other girls aged 7 and 9 angered many in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation with more than 210 million believers. Complaints came from Religious Affairs Minister Maftuh Basuni, child rights groups and the Indonesia Ulemma Council — the country's top Islamic body.
"This is pedophilia ... pure and simple," said Arist Merdeka Sirait, secretary general of the National Commission for Children's Rights, who praised the police action. "We aren't living in the Stone Age here, we have to protect our children against these kinds of things."
Police returned Widianto's young wife to her parents' care not long after the marriage ceremony.
18 Mar 09
Originally posted by FMFRec'd.
As a statistical sideshow? Or as some kind of major Thing That's Going On which gives you a woody for your own prejudice?
Well let's take a look at the 20th century, for example - let's take a look at the killing that went on and see what the role of predominantly Christian and/or non-Muslim countries was, and to what extent Muslim countries account for the t ...[text shortened]... when they could have literally got away with mass murder.
Where were they?
You do a demonstrably far better job here than i did some months ago of highlighting, that religion (in general) is not the main cause of wars over the years.