Originally posted by ScriabinAh now a massive cut & paste because he'd made a bit of a fool of himself with his previous 13 personally abusive, substance-less posts.
The following actors are known to commit mass atrocities against innocent, non-combatant civilians:
Sudanese Security Forces. The government of Sudan is waging a counterinsurgency campaign against Darfurian rebels, conducting indiscriminate aerial bombardments of villages and allowing their soldiers to operate under very loose rules of engagement, enabl w.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=5180&l=1and "Darfur: Revitalizing the Peace Process"
Originally posted by FMFempty accusations.
Ah now a massive cut & paste because he'd made a bit of a fool of himself with his previous 13 personally abusive, substance-less posts.
you accuse me of substance-less posts? what, you think people can't READ?
you've failed to respond to each and every substantive point put to you by everyone on this thread.
So it was time someone your own size stepped in and shut you the heck up already -- for you got absolutely no ammunition
all you do is whine
Originally posted by ScriabinYou are kidding yourself.
empty accusations. you accuse me of substance-less posts? what, you think people can't READ? you've failed to respond to each and every substantive point put to you by everyone on this thread. So it was time someone your own size stepped in and shut you the heck up already -- for you got absolutely no ammunition all you do is whine
Originally posted by Scriabin
again, take a poll -- who is whining and who is making a point the other won't respond to?
This is all you've come up with for the last 60 minutes or so...
... get a clue, already… gosh darn and gee whiz, I'm truly sorry I trampled all over your nuances again … but talking about boring .... you make light bend around you, guy, that's how dense your subtleties are…. all you got on your mind is defending who your are and where you are from … it ain't about all that, ok? give it up already … again, nothing but personal invective with no humor, no self deprecation. my, but you have round heels ... geez, if you are such a big time twit, how come you can't do a little self deprecation now and then, if only to appease the peasants? … You have absolutely no entertainment value. … No one would ever think of quoting something you said to pass on to someone else -- … you choose your examples with care to exclude anything that might weaken your already irrelevant, immaterial, and quite boring premise. … the FACT is a hell of a lot of non-Muslims have come to absolutely blanch and all but run for the exits when they see Muslims coming. … gee, wonder why? … that's why I asked about the food -- could it be their breath? … I assume, at least, yours is in question -- come to think of it, I could use a mint, too. … hurrah, huzzah, three cheers for Indonesia -- ok, now what? … never a substantive reply -- a good rule for someone like you, FMF, with pretty much nothing … you got nothing to offer substantively -- the well educated know that it is bogus to hate all Muslims for the acts of a distinct few who use the religion to mask their radical political agenda. … all you do is harp on your fav tourist destination, beautiful Indonesia. … Which is a fine spot, since the scenery is spectacular, the food clearly world class, and the culture fascinating. … So why does Indonesia need a tiny closed minded twit like you to defend it? And you do it so badly, too. … What, they don't really accept you so you can't accept yourself? No, that shouldn't be it, since being cast as the "outsider" in the midst of a culture you truly want to join should make an intelligent person something of a comedian. Instead, you're a bitter, insecure, uptight, duckhead with lips. Don't know how to account for it, but bad brain wiring sure does suggest itself ... you get only that which you've earned in life -- funny that way, huh? … It ain't a shallow matter, duckhead -- but it may be to the morally and mentally challenged such as you … why thank you, I was thinking of sending you a bill for the time I've spent talking to someone I thought was you, and only afterward realized wasn't you. … but that's just how lawyers think. what's your excuse? … how vapid and vacuous you are. c'mon, put up or shut up -- stop whining already … and your upper class brittwit pretentiousness buys you naught…
Which "point" of yours is it that I am supposed to respond to exactly?
Pehaps this has been your Defining Hour?
Originally posted by FMFyou are supposed to recognize that it was pertinent to raise the issue of Darfur -- regardless of whether it is evidence of Muslims mass-murdering other Muslims.
Originally posted by Scriabin
[b]again, take a poll -- who is whining and who is making a point the other won't respond to?
This is all you've come up with for the last 60 minutes or so...
... get a clue, already… gosh darn and gee whiz, I'm truly sorry I trampled all over your nuances again … but talking about boring .... you make light ben pposed to respond to exactly?
Pehaps this has been your Defining Hour?
You have tried to convince us that taken as a total population, including that of Indonesia, Muslims are among the least significant of those who engage in mass murder or terrorism.
It is a spurious argument - quite immaterial.
For the question has to do with perceptions, not facts.
Even today, most people do not realize the victims of the Darfur tragedy are mostly Muslims themselves - the issue there isn't religious, it is racial and tribal.
As the NYT said this weekend:
"After the International Criminal Court this week ordered his arrest on war crimes, Omar Hassan al-Bashir, Sudan’s ever-ruthless leader, ordered the expulsion of 13 international aid groups that keep millions of impoverished Sudanese alive with food and medical care. If Mr. Bashir does not reverse the expulsion, it should be considered added proof of his guilt.
"It is the first time the 7-year-old court has sought to arrest a sitting head of state. The warrant — for war crimes and crimes against humanity — is undeniably deserved. The judges said that Sudan’s president played an “essential role” in the murder, rape, torture and displacement of large numbers of civilians in Darfur."
What is the difference between the killers and the victims when both are Sudanese Muslims?
Clearly, Islam isn't why Darfur is happening. Something else is at work.
but you can't get out of your defensive crouch or whatever it is that keeps you from addressing the origin of the unfortunate perceptions that persist about Muslims and their purported association with the crimes of those who use religion as cover for their political aims.
Originally posted by ScriabinAh at last we get to the bottom of it. You have been getting the wrong end of the stick all along. I have not been trying to "convince" you of anything of the sort. The Islamophobes here at RHP bristle with their bug jars full of horrible atrocities and sweeping generalizations based on the worst cases they can find in depraved corners of the world. Meanwhile, Indonesia is perhaps a paradigm of moderate Islam in action, warts and all. Which is pretty interesting because it also happens to be the biggest Muslim country in the world and - perhaps, again - with its secular constitution, multi-faith culture and massive 'young' population, some kind of blueprint for the future. So, while we are all regaled day after day here at RHP with descriptions of Muslims and Muslim countries based on grotesque scrapbook of awful stories taken from places like Somalia and Iran, meanwhile the 4th biggest country in the world is providing a completely different narrative - one which Islamophobes are quite keen to see overlooked. And for some reason - is it personal animosity? - you have chosen to place yourself squarely in their ignorant and dishonest corner on this occasion.
You have tried to convince us that taken as a total population, including that of Indonesia, Muslims are among the least significant of those who engage in mass murder or terrorism.
As for asserting "Muslims are among the least significant of those who engage in mass murder or terrorism", I have done nothing of the sort. And as for the other points you make - about Darfur, for example - why not just make them and engage, rather than trying to wield them as some sort of sneering weapon. Yes. I have provided some input about Muslim Indonesia. You seem to have your shorts all knotted because my information about Indonesia was not about Darfur. Nor did I mention Sheik so-and-so's support for Hitler and whatnot however many years ago it was. I am surprised you didn't try to criticize me for my posts about Indonesia for not working it in somewhere. You have this insidious strawman thing going on the whole time. "You're not writing about the thing I'm thinking of, Gotcha!" For some reason you seem to think your posts need to land blows and establish that unless what people say corresponds to everything you know, or the way you are personally choosing to simplify or encapsluate a complex issue, then people ought not to contribute to threads and are therefore fair game for relentless and humorless personal abuse. You really are an odd fellow.
Originally posted by scherzoThe Baath Party and Hussein are and were openly Muslim. Hussein decreed that "God is Great" should be put on the national flag!
Islam is never used to cover a fascist regime. The only fascist regimes in the Middle East that ever were are Lebanon in the 1970s and 1980s, Iran from the 1950s to 1979, and Israel from the 1970s to the present. None of those regimes were Muslim: the first was Maronite/Catholic, the second strictly secular, and the third Jewish-leaning secular. While there ...[text shortened]... ng Holocaust museums in a country that has treated Native Americans, blacks, etc. so badly.