Why does everyone hate Muslims so much?

Originally posted by whodey
Perhaps this is part of why people "hate" Muslims. They think that instituing an Islamic state is part of the over all solution of what is wrong with the world. I think that countries like Iran can attest to the fallacy of this form of thinking yet it persists. Or ask Hamas and Fatah the same question as they fight each other in the streets of Palastine.

Iran is not the only Islamic state. Again, Jordan and Tunisia are very progressive socially (although they have poor governmental structure).

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Let me ask you this my friend, for it seems somewhat self evident, do you think that Islam and democracy are compatible? If not, why not?

Islam is just a religion. Islam is perhaps more compatible with true democracy than Christianity because one of the five pillars of faith is zakat, or welfare tax. In Muslim countries this tax is legalized, similar to income tax or property tax in the US. This tax ensures a more stable democratic system by helping the poor up. Christianity, although it stresses helping fellow men, has no such necessity for belief.

Originally posted by FMF
I think you should be careful about the use of 'state' and 'country'. Iran is an "Islamic State" - constitutionally. Tunsia is a "Muslim country" - demographically. Indonesia is the world's third biggest democracy and indicates that the predominance of Islam and a flourishing democracy are not mutually exclusive.

Did I ever say they were? I just said that two Muslim countries that I know a lot about are progressive. I'm not as familiar with Indonesia, but I can say with certainty that there is really no democracy in the Middle East. I can also say with certainty that it has nothing to do with religion.

Originally posted by scherzo
Islam is just a religion. Islam is perhaps more compatible with true democracy than Christianity because one of the five pillars of faith is zakat, or welfare tax. In Muslim countries this tax is legalized, similar to income tax or property tax in the US. This tax ensures a more stable democratic system by helping the poor up. Christianity, although it stresses helping fellow men, has no such necessity for belief.

in Pakistan, every year, you will see hordes of people queuing up to take their money from the banks before the government can impose zakat, and I am not sure if Zakat is binding on Shia. I cannot say what happens in America, having never been there nor ever entertained the desire to go, but in Europe, we have some of the most generous welfare systems on earth, Sweden is an excellent example, as is the U.K. You are perhaps a little ignorant of Christianity, which is understandable, for so are so many 'Christians', however, for there is indeed a necessity on Christians to help others, infact, without this action, there faith is futile, and unlike Islam which is based on laws, and thus provides, in my opinion, little or no room for the exercise of the faculty of the human conscience, this must come from the heart, not because of a decree or annual observance, thus we read in the Anjil, '

Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if a certain one says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? If a brother or a sister is in a naked state and lacking the food sufficient for the day, yet a certain one of you says to them: “Go in peace, keep warm and well fed,” but you do not give them the necessities for their body, of what benefit is it?  Thus, too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself.

Originally posted by scherzo
Islam is just a religion. Islam is perhaps more compatible with true democracy than Christianity because one of the five pillars of faith is zakat, or welfare tax. In Muslim countries this tax is legalized, similar to income tax or property tax in the US. This tax ensures a more stable democratic system by helping the poor up. Christianity, although it stresses helping fellow men, has no such necessity for belief.

Islam is just a religion.
What do you mean by that; that it lacks political efficacy? If so, then you are either deluded or naive.

Islam is perhaps more compatible with true democracy than Christianity because one of the five pillars of faith is zakat, or welfare tax. In Muslim countries this tax is legalized, similar to income tax or property tax in the US.
Haven't you therefore just contrdicted your first point - clearly the ability to influence taxes indicates that Islam is not "just a religion"?

This tax ensures a more stable democratic system by helping the poor up.
Exctly which "democratic" Islamic based country are you refering to here?

Christianity, although it stresses helping fellow men, has no such necessity for belief.
No, because religion and the state should be separate, as the original basis of Christianity was, therefore who within it could control legislation of taxes?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
in Pakistan, every year, you will see hordes of people queuing up to take their money from the banks before the government can impose zakat, and I am not sure if Zakat is binding on Shia. I cannot say what happens in America, having never been there nor ever entertained the desire to go, but in Europe, we have some of the most generous welfare syste ...[text shortened]... body, of what benefit is it?  Thus, too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself.

in Pakistan, every year, you will see hordes of people queuing up to take their money from the banks before the government can impose zakat, and I am not sure if Zakat is binding on Shia.

I don't consider Pakistan a true Muslim country because they are not peaceful, and unlike the Palestinians, they have reason to be.

And Zakat is binding to all Muslims, Shia or Sunni. Or Ahmadiyya or Sufi.

there is indeed a necessity on Christians to help others, infact, without this action, there faith is futile, and unlike Islam which is based on laws, and thus provides, in my opinion, little or no room for the exercise of the faculty of the human conscience, this must come from the heart, not because of a decree or annual observance, thus we read in the Anjil, '

I don't think you're lying here, but I think you don't really know. There is no binding on Christianity to help others like there is with Islam. Specifically, there is no binding on Christianity to help others of different faiths like there is with Islam. Notably, many, many more people have died in the name of Jesus than in the name of Mohammed.

Originally posted by divegeester
[b]Islam is just a religion.
What do you mean by that; that it lacks political efficacy? If so, then you are either deluded or naive.

Islam is perhaps more compatible with true democracy than Christianity because one of the five pillars of faith is zakat, or welfare tax. In Muslim countries this tax is legalized, similar to income tax inal basis of Christianity was, therefore who within it could control legislation of taxes?

What do you mean by that; that it lacks political efficacy? If so, then you are either deluded or naive.[/b]

I'm saying there's no inherent way to govern a country based on a religion. Sudan is a Muslim country, Somalia is a Muslim country, Jordan is a Muslim country, Turkey is a Muslim country, Albania is a Muslim country, Afghanistan is a Muslim country, the Maldives is a Muslim country, Malaysia is a Muslim country. These countries have very different and unique political systems.

Haven't you therefore just contrdicted your first point - clearly the ability to influence taxes indicates that Islam is not "just a religion"?
Many Muslim countries have made zakat the law to show that they are Muslim countries; zakat was never originally conceived to be a state tax. Not that they really had states back then, or at least, not as we do today.

Exctly which "democratic" Islamic based country are you refering to here?
See my comment above --- I said a more stable democratic system, not a democratic Muslim country. By the way, Palestine and Turkey are fairly democratic Muslim countries in the Middle East. Neither are perfect, but hey, they're better than Israel.

No, because religion and the state should be separate, as the original basis of Christianity was, therefore who within it could control legislation of taxes?
See above comments as well.

Originally posted by scherzo
.. I don't consider Pakistan a true Muslim country because they are not peaceful, ...

Here are the 38 listed Muslim countries according to WIKI.
How many in your opinion are 'peacful'?

Pos Country Population
1 Indonesia 231,627,000
2 Pakistan 163,630,000
3 Bangladesh 158,665,000
4 Nigeria 148,093,000
5 Egypt 75,498,000
6 Turkey 74,877,000
7 Iran 71,208,000
8 Sudan 38,560,000
9 Algeria 33,858,000
10 Morocco 31,224,000
11 Iraq 28,993,000
12 Uzbekistan 27,372,000
13 Afghanistan 27,145,000
14 Malaysia 27,140,000
15 Saudi Arabia 24,735,000
16 Yemen 22,389,000
17 Syria 19,929,000
18 Kazakhstan 15,422,000
19 Niger 14,226,000
20 Senegal 12,379,000
21 Mali 12,337,000
22 Chad 10,781,000
23 Tunisia 10,327,000
24 Guinea-Conakry 9,370,000
25 Somalia 8,699,000
26 Azerbaijan 8,467,000
27 Tajikistan 6,736,000
28 Libya 6,160,000
29 Jordan 5,924,000
30 Sierra Leone 5,866,000
31 Kyrgyzstan 5,317,000
32 Turkmenistan 4,965,000
33 Eritrea 4,851,000
24 United Arab Emirates 4,380,000
25 Lebanon 4,099,000
26 Albania 3,190,000
27 Mauritania 3,124,000
28 Kuwait 2,851,000
29 Oman 2,595,000
30 Kosovo 2,000,000
31 Gambia 1,709,000
32 Qatar 841,000
33 Djibouti 833,000
34 Bahrain 753,000
35 Comoros 682,000
36 Western Sahara 480,000
37 Brunei 390,000
38 Maldives 306,000

Originally posted by Rajk999
Here are the 38 listed Muslim countries according to WIKI.
How many in your opinion are 'peacful'?

Pos Country Population
1 Indonesia 231,627,000
2 Pakistan 163,630,000
3 Bangladesh 158,665,000
4 Nigeria 148,093,000
5 Egypt 75,498,000
6 Turkey 74,877,000
7 Iran 71,208,000
8 Sudan 38,560,000
9 Algeria 33,858,000
10 Morocco 31 ...[text shortened]...
35 Comoros 682,000
36 Western Sahara 480,000
37 Brunei 390,000
38 Maldives 306,000

I looked this up too and thought exactly the same as you Raj, except I couldn't bothered to post it as shez would probalby just start talking about "relatively peaceful" and continue to using Israel as an example of a christian country that isn't peaceful despite the fact the the other protagonists are muslims! (and israel isn't exactly christian anyway is it!)

Shez you are living in a dream world my friend. However the Maldives are peaceful, at least they were when I was there a few years ago.

Islam is a terrifying religion and imo is the biggest threat to civil peace in the UK.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Here are the 38 listed Muslim countries according to WIKI.
How many in your opinion are 'peacful'?

Pos Country Population
1 Indonesia 231,627,000
2 Pakistan 163,630,000
3 Bangladesh 158,665,000
4 Nigeria 148,093,000
5 Egypt 75,498,000
6 Turkey 74,877,000
7 Iran 71,208,000
8 Sudan 38,560,000
9 Algeria 33,858,000
10 Morocco 31 ...[text shortened]...
35 Comoros 682,000
36 Western Sahara 480,000
37 Brunei 390,000
38 Maldives 306,000

Indonesia, Bangladesh (didn't use to be, but is now), Nigeria, Egypt, Turkey, Morocco, Uzbekistan, Malaysia, Kazakhstan (the greatest country in the world!), Niger, Senegal, Mali, Chad, Tunisia, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Jordan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, UAE, Mauritania, Oman, Gambia, Bahrain, Comoros, Western Sahara, Brunei, and Maldives.

Not all of these have good governments, but all of them are peaceful.

Originally posted by divegeester
I looked this up too and thought exactly the same as you Raj, except I couldn't bothered to post it as shez would probalby just start talking about "relatively peaceful" and continue to using Israel as an example of a christian country that isn't peaceful despite the fact the the other protagonists are muslims! (and israel isn't exactly christian anyway ...[text shortened]... .

Islam is a terrifying religion and imo is the biggest threat to civil peace in the UK.

Israel is not a democracy. I made that point because everyone said it was, and it's not, by my definition of a democracy.

Islam is not a threat to peace; there are certain offshoots that threaten peace and stability, but these factions number few and are not very popular. The other 1.29999 billion Muslims, I promise you, have no dream to obliterate the US and UK.

And it's "scherzo," not "shez."

Originally posted by divegeester
I looked this up too and thought exactly the same as you Raj, except I couldn't bothered to post it as shez would probalby just start talking about "relatively peaceful" and continue to using Israel as an example of a christian country that isn't peaceful despite the fact the the other protagonists are muslims! (and israel isn't exactly christian anyway ...[text shortened]... .

Islam is a terrifying religion and imo is the biggest threat to civil peace in the UK.

Yep .. its the 38 top holiday destinations in the world.
People just love the peaceful atmosphere ... 😀

Originally posted by Rajk999
Yep .. its the 38 top holiday destinations in the world.
People just love the peaceful atmosphere ... 😀

Better than Northern Spain.

Actually, when I was in th Maldives I saw no sign of Islam that I remember. I was amazd at how many faiths there were there, and how little crime of any sort.

Originally posted by divegeester
Actually, when I was in th Maldives I saw no sign of Islam that I remember. I was amazd at how many faiths there were there, and how little crime of any sort.

Well, they're a Muslim country.