Why does God allow evil?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
And again, fallacious, due to his omnipresent nature. Of course, I could also argue its fallaciousness with respect to God's supposed omnibenevolence (i.e. how can an omnibenevolent, omnipotent creator just sit there and watch evil things happen).

What do you mean by His "omnipresent nature"?

Originally posted by Conrau K
What do you mean by His "omnipresent nature"?

Well, he can't be everywhere and yet completely divorced from proceedings as well. Logically that just doesn't follow.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Well, he can't be everywhere and yet completely divorced from proceedings as well. Logically that just doesn't follow.

actually, didnt adam hide from God after he ate off of the tree? and he came out so God could see him? if God couldnt see him, then hes not omnipresent.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
actually, didnt adam hide from God after he ate off of the tree? and he came out so God could see him? if God couldnt see him, then hes not omnipresent.

What's that? A contradiction in Christian doctorine? Surely not!

Here's a question for you then. Can God be omnipotent if he isn't omnipresent?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Well, he can't be everywhere and yet completely divorced from proceedings as well. Logically that just doesn't follow.

Why? I can be present in this room but restrict my actions in it. In this case I am present yet "divorced from proceedings".

Originally posted by Conrau K
Why? I can be present in this room but restrict my actions in it. In this case I am present yet "divorced from proceedings".

You are not omnibenevolent and omnipotent though.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
You are not omnibenevolent and omnipotent though.

Omnipotence and omnibenevolence do not presuppose any involvement in the proceedings.

If I read it right, the xian perspective that the posters are trying to work around to is that propounded by C.S. Lewis in The Problem of Pain. That is, pain is ultimately the thing that drives us to God, it's necessary to point us to Him, etc.

I used to buy it.

Originally posted by blakbuzzrd
If I read it right, the xian perspective that the posters are trying to work around to is that propounded by C.S. Lewis in The Problem of Pain. That is, pain is ultimately the thing that drives us to God, it's necessary to point us to Him, etc.

I used to buy it.

No, that's not what anyone is saying, at all.

Originally posted by Conrau K
Omnipotence and omnibenevolence do not presuppose any involvement in the proceedings.

God has no reason to "get involved in procedings" as He already knows what will happen!

Allowing evil to exist because he stepped back after Creation, seems clumsy & sadistic. There is no reason for it to be needed in anyones relationship to God.
You don't say to your girlfriend "no food for the next week, darling. Don't worry - it'll make you love me more. Oh & by the way, the neighbour just killed our daughter - I had the power to stop it, but I'd already stood back."

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
God has no reason to "get involved in procedings" as He already knows what will happen!

What? Say for instance I know my mother is going to be killed by a bu, does that mean I should not try to prevent it?

Originally posted by Conrau K
What? Say for instance I know my mother is going to be killed by a bu, does that mean I should not try to prevent it?

God's thoughts & actions exist outside of time constraints.
There is no free will. God has anticipated everything - He has total knowledge.
The only free will that exists is (wrongly) implanted in believers' minds.
They must be following God's plan on pre-destined paths.

The whole argument about evil existing because we have free will is pathetic.
It suggests God cannot predict our actions.
If He can then our free will is irrelevant to the issue of evil. God would have anticipated the existence of evil.
This makes Him either grossly neglegent or psychotic.

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
God's thoughts & actions exist outside of time constraints.
There is no free will. God has anticipated everything - He has total knowledge.
The only free will that exists is (wrongly) implanted in believers' minds.
They must be following God's plan on pre-destined paths.

The whole argument about evil existing because we have free will is pathetic ...[text shortened]... ave anticipated the existence of evil.
This makes Him either grossly neglegent or psychotic.

What are you talking about? How does knowledge of the future mean I have no free will?

And I never said that evil existed so that we might have free will. I argued that God must contract his inifiniteness in order for creation to exist as independent of God, as something autonomous. Evil was just a consequence of this. And yes, if God is omniscient He would have anticipated evil. But as several other people have already explained this evil could a) be necassary, b) be part of an ultimate plan of perfection, c) eventually compensated for. Someone else volunteered the possibility that God suffering might also bring us closer to God, in which case it falls into b) and c).

Originally posted by Conrau K
What are you talking about? How does knowledge of the future mean I have no free will?

Because every choice you ever make is the only choice you could ever make.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Because every choice you ever make is the only choice you could ever make.

Just because I can see the future and see where a choice will lead me does not mean that it is not a choice.