Why does God hide?

This maybe a rather simple answer but it's one i think is most relevant.

He doesn't exist.

Originally posted by kirksey957
But isn't it a story of God aslo learning what gets him in trouble too? He has no expereince with this any more than Adam and Eve.

It wouldn't apply to him if he's omniscient. He would already know in advance what leads to trouble and what does not.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
It wouldn't apply to him if he's omniscient. He would already know in advance what leads to trouble and what does not.

The OT God is quite clearly not omniscient - especially in genesis.

Originally posted by twhitehead
The OT God is quite clearly not omniscient - especially in genesis.

Yes, in Genesis he sounds like he was blind to much of what was going on right under his nose. However, there are passages in Psalms and Job that paint a radically different picture. It is these some interpret as showing that God is omniscient.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
They were not promised that they could decide what is good and evil, but only that they could know what is good and evil. This does not give any moral independence, but only culpability for wrongdoing.

And yes, the way the story goes, it seems like they were in a childlike state of innocence before they gained knowledge of good and evil.

Innocence? Pray tell, how could they have been innocent when neither good nor evil existed?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Innocence? Pray tell, how could they have been innocent when neither good nor evil existed?

Good and evil did exist. They were just unknown to humanity.

Or so the story goes.

Originally posted by KellyJay
The fear is justified, since there isn't anyone that can pull us from His
hand or protect us from His judgment; however, the grace and mercy
that we are shown through the love He has for us is by far greater.

That seems like a contradiction to me. Either we would fear God if he revealed himself or we wouldn't.

I'm also saying that we tend to let things go we should not, or do
things we should not because that is in our heart to do. I will speak for
myself but I do tend to from time to time do things I know are wrong
while I'm doing them, because I want to, even if I am struggling to
not them them!
And why is that a good thing?

I'm not saying that it is better to act in ignorance, God through Jesus
Christ has setup a waya of salvation, a life raft in the storm of life you
either get in or you don't, both choices will lead you somewhere.
Make up your mind. Either God is hiding, or he isn't, or he is hiding from some of us. You earlier claimed that it was a good thing that he was hiding, but now you seem to be saying that he is not hiding.
You also make the age old strawman that knowledge of God is a choice.

Knowing God is a means to reject the sin of this life too, without Him
why would you?
Kelly
In your other post you were explaining why knowledge of God was a bad thing, now you are saying it is a good thing. Which is it?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I believe it is a reality check, if God revealed Himself more comletely
would our actions than be because of our fear or the reality of what we
really are?
Kelly

At least you have not allowed the facts or even logic interfere with your beliefs.

Originally posted by Monty348
In the Bible, God walked and talked with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

As a searching pilgrim trying to believe that God is real and present in the world today, I wonder often why he does not reveal himself more fully to those who search for him?

I'm very interested in what other people think about this.

I believe that God knows every minute detail of our very soul/psyche, and He knows if we are REALLY seeking Him. Many of us, myself included, pray to God but don't seem to notice any immediate results. God doesn't work forr anyone's schedule and timing. He may answer a prayer with a resounding NO, but He does hear every prayer, the phony prayers included. Sometimes, I don't realize God has actually answered my prayers until days, weeks, months, and even years later. When I look back on my life, I marvel at some of the things I did and that could have led to my demise, and then I realize but for the grace of God, I am still here on earth.

Originally posted by dystoniac
I believe that God knows every minute detail of our very soul/psyche, and He knows if we are REALLY seeking Him. Many of us, myself included, pray to God but don't seem to notice any immediate results. God doesn't work forr anyone's schedule and timing. He may answer a prayer with a resounding NO, but He does hear every prayer, the phony prayers include ...[text shortened]... ave led to my demise, and then I realize but for the grace of God, I am still here on earth.

You say he knows *me*? And yet he doesn't care.

You say he hears every prayers? And yet he do doesn't care. Who listened at those jews in the concentration camps? Who listens at the dying Palestinians who are killed in His name?

When I turn the key in my car, I espect it to work. The key and the engine is listening more at me, because it delivers what I need. Does god do that? No, he isn't.

Yet you say that he cares and listens prayers? I rather rely on my car.

Originally posted by Monty348
In the Bible, God walked and talked with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

As a searching pilgrim trying to believe that God is real and present in the world today, I wonder often why he does not reveal himself more fully to those who search for him?

I'm very interested in what other people think about this.

It is uppermost on God's heart to be seen. But this seeing of God may not be according to man's natural and unenlightened concept. God appeared on Mt. Sanai for 80 days in Exodus. That was some kind of marvelous manifestation of God to the Hebrews. It didn't stop them from worshipping a golden calf.

Chiefly God wants to be seen by dispensing His life and nature into man so that man shines out the divine attributes of God within uplifted human virtues. This He did through the incarnation of Jesus Christ:

"In the beginning was the Word , and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, He was in the beginning with God ... And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us (and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only Begotten from the Father, full of grace and reality..." (John 1:1,2, 14)

God was seen in the man Jesus. He was the eternal Word who became flesh. And He is the living tabernacle of God, full of grace and reality. John writes that this is how God wants to be seen as mingled and united with humanity:

"No one has ever seen God; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him." (v.18)

Though God had a number of appearings to people in the Old Testament, the Apostle John tells us that none of these appearings really count for seeing God. Rather through incarnation Jesus Christ manifested His Father as the living human tabernacle of God among man. No one has ever seen God. The only begotten Son has declared God. God wants to be seen in the man Jesus.

But this is not all. This is not the only and last manifestation of God. And we should not think that we now miss out because we were not there 2000 years ago to see the Son of God manifest the Father. The Apostle Paul tells us that this manifestation continues with the believers:

"But when it pleased God, who set me apar from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, to reveal His Son in me that I might announce Him as the gospel among the Gentiles ..." (Gal. 1:15,16)

Did you see that? It pleased God to reveal His Son in Paul. And Paul is only a representative of the normal Christian disciple. God's pleasure is therefore to seperate you from your mother's womb, call you by His grace to reveal Himself in you. Yes you and I, as forgiven sinners, as redeemed sinners, are ordained to be the continuation of God manifest in the flesh.

" ... God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you the hope of glory" (Col. 1:27)

The will the invisible God is to wrought Himself into His saved sinners to reveal Himself from within them. God wants to be manifested from within man.

This is why He created man. He created man to dispense Himself into man, to work Himself into man, to wrought Himself into man in order to be seen by all creation from within man. He did this first in Jesus Christ - God incarnate as a man. He continues this manifestation by wroughting Himself into the believers in Christ.

I will continue with this in another post.

A number of times in the Bible God was manifested to man. Mt. Sanai is one example. John makes a bold statement in his Gospel of John. He says that no one has ever seen God.

"No one has ever seen God; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him." (John 1:18)

The Gospel is saying that those manifestations of God in the Old Testament didn't count. God was ultimately declared in the life, death, and resurrection of the man Jesus. The man Jesus defined God, declared God, manifested God, and shone forth the moral glory of God. Jesus, the Son of God, declared God His Father as God united and blended with humanity.

Therefore God's will is to be seen in man as God and man united, blended, mingled and in an "organic" union. This is why He created man in the first place. The invisible eternal Divine Person created man as a vessel into which God would dispense Himself that from within this living vessel the eternal and uncreated Life might be manifested to the universe.

Here again the Apostle Paul shows that the saved sinners are ordained to be the continuation of this revealing of God from within human life:

"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not of us" (2 Cor. 4:7)

"This treasure" refers to the divine life of God. The human being is the "earthen vessel". Paul gained a high degree of Christian maturity. And he manifested the life of Christ in his own body. And the life of Christ is God manifest in the flesh. Here Paul speaks of his life long aspiration to manifest Christ whether through life or death:

"According to my earnest expectation and hope that in nothing I will be put to shame, but with all boldness, as always, even now Christ will be manifested in my body, whether through life or death.

For to me to live is Christ and to die is gain." (Phil 1:20,21)

Regardless of the intense hardship the Apostle Paul experienced because of his life for Jesus, he expected that Christ would be his living and would be manifested to all who met him, even if this meant his (Paul's) death.

Here again, not only Paul but his companion apostles, and indeed all who live unto Christ, are to manifest Christ:

"Always bearing about in the body the putting to death of Jesus that the life of Jesus also may be mnanifested in our body. For we wjp are alive are always being delivered unto death for Jesus sake that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal body." (2 Cor. 4:10,11)

God wants to be seen in man. This why He created man. This is why He saves man from sins by the death and resurrection of Jesus. This is why He dispenses the Holy Spirit into His saved people. It is all for the manifestation of God in man. That is the divine attributes of the invisible God are to be manifested from within the human virtues.

No one person can fully manifest God. God needs a collective and corporate vessel of millions men and women to be an aggregate expression of God mingled with man. Paul was just a representative of one who normally was brought into this manifestation of God in His people.

I will continue this thought below.

A picture is worth 1000 words. And because this mystery of God manifest in man is so profound the Bible gives us much symbolism to teach this truth.

For example consider the book of Revelation. There we see that the ultimate city of God, New Jerusalm, bears the glory and appearance of God Himself.

Consider readers, these passages:

"Immediately I was in spirit,: and behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and upon the throne there was One sitting; And He who was sitting was like a jasper stone ..." (Rev. 4:3)

Here, I believe that the jasper is the dark green kind. God appeared to John in the color of dark green jasper stone. But consider how the New Jerusalem, the glorious city that God is building appears.

"And he carried me away in spirit onto a great and high mountain and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a JASPER stone, as clear as crystal." (Rev. 21:10,11)

Did you notice? God on the throne appeared to John as a jasper stone in chapter 4. In chapter 21 the city coming down from God appears as jasper stone, precious and clear as crystal. It is said even that the city has the glory of God.

This means that the city manifests God. The city bears the appearance of God. Jasper here, being dark green in color, represents the deep richness of life. God looks like the deep richness of eternal life. And the corporate expression of God, the New Jerusalem, as a collective entity of fellowship of all the saved throughout the ages, bears the same appearance.

She looks like the richness of life. She looks like Christ as the manifestation of the glorious life of God. She looks like a jasper stone which is clear as crystal. This means that there is no opagueness with her. The God within her shine out from within her in unhindered splendour. She is clear a crystal. And God's rich dark green life is the glorious expression that she bears.


All of this is symbolic. It is also spoken in plain words of teaching in the New Testament. God's eternal purpose is to wrought Himself into man. God's plan is to dispense Himself into a corporate vessel called New Jerusalem. From her transparent being the indwelling Divine Life of God is manifested. The one on the throne as the Creator in Revelation 4 becomes the one infused into the entire city New Jerusalem.

Originally posted by twhitehead
That seems like a contradiction to me. Either we would fear God if he revealed himself or we wouldn't.

[b]I'm also saying that we tend to let things go we should not, or do
things we should not because that is in our heart to do. I will speak for
myself but I do tend to from time to time do things I know are wrong
while I'm doing them, because I wan why knowledge of God was a bad thing, now you are saying it is a good thing. Which is it?

…That seems like a contradiction to me.
..…[/b]

It does seem like that way to me also: can you really have BOTH “God” having dangerous judgement against you that you should rationally fear AND “God” having only love and mercy for you? -perhaps “he” is supposed to have a Jekyll and Hyde character? -in which case he may need to speak to one of our specialist psychiatrists in paranoid schizophrenia and split personality for urgent treatment.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
perhaps “he” is supposed to have a Jekyll and Hyde character? -in which case he may need to speak to one of our specialist psychiatrists in paranoid schizophrenia and split personality for urgent treatment.

A schizoid god is not one I want to worship...