Why does God hide?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
A schizoid god is not one I want to worship...

I think the god you would want to worship would be one which hasn’t the power to stop human suffering (else he/she/it would have to be a cruel or cold god to allow it) and never would punish nor deliberately causes human suffering nor even mentally judge us but does always love and care for all sapient beings (not just us) even though he/she/it cannot necessarily help us 🙂

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
I think the god you would want to worship would be one which hasn’t the power to stop human suffering (else he/she/it would have to be a cruel or cold god to allow it) and never would punish nor deliberately causes human suffering nor even mentally judge us but does always love and care for all sapient beings (not just us) even though he/she/it cannot necessarily help us 🙂

There is no god I want to worship.
My view of a god is one that doesn't want us to worship it.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
There is no god I want to worship.
My view of a god is one that doesn't want us to worship it.

A number of people have written that they do not want to worship any god. Don't think that because they say this they do not have their idols which they do practically worship.

I'm pretty sure all the unwilling worshippers have something they practically bow down to in their being saying "Deliver me my god."

What idol have they put in place of God? Darwin, MONEY, Intertainment, thier company, thier retirement plan, the earth, their schooling, the opposite sex ?

In the New Testament the worship of God is really to live God and allow God's Spirit to move into all of your living.

My sleep, my driving, my doing daily chores are all included in a moment by moment worship of Christ.

So all you folks who don't want to be a fool for Jesus Christ, I know it is just a matter of "Whose fool are you?"

Originally posted by jaywill
A number of people have written that they do not want to worship any god. Don't think that because they say this they do not have their idols which they do practically worship.

I'm pretty sure all the unwilling worshippers have something they practically bow down to in their being saying "Deliver me my god."

What idol have they put in place of God? ...[text shortened]... on't want to be a fool for Jesus Christ, I know it is just a matter of whose fool are you.

You got me thinking here, I thank you for that.

Whenever I find myself in a position where I tend to agree to what I thought was wrong in the second before I usually go back to the very definition of the thing at hand.

What's the definition of "worshipping"?

When I see religious people worship, I come to think of jews at the wall in Jerusalem, christians talking in tongues, extatic gatherings in tents with a preacher and hallelujahs and all.
I've never see this behaviour worshipping Darwin, so Darwin cannot be worshipped any more than any other person you admire, nothing more. Religiously worshipping is something else.

Only to think something is important in ones life (my wife, my job, my retirement plan, my new red hot car, or whatever) is not worshipping.
Can this really compare with worshipping god in the same way christians do it? No, I can't think so.

So back to the point again:
I don't want to worship any god.
A god good for me doesn't want to be worshipped.

But you made me think again, sorry to say, I got back to my original thought again. But you tought me some important stuff here. Thanks!

Originally posted by FabianFnas
You got me thinking here, I thank you for that.

Whenever I find myself in a position where I tend to agree to what I thought was wrong in the second before I usually go back to the very definition of the thing at hand.

What's the definition of "worshipping"?

When I see religious people worship, I come to think of jews at the wall in Jerusalem, ch t back to my original thought again. But you tought me some important stuff here. Thanks!

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When I see religious people worship, I come to think of jews at the wall in Jerusalem, christians talking in tongues, extatic gatherings in tents with a preacher and hallelujahs and all.
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This matter also gets me thinking. Probably different from you. It makes me open up the Bible and ask "Exactly what is the worship that God desires? Why was so much apparent worship rejected by Him in the Bible? I mean from Cain's worship to the worship which cried out for the crucifixion of the Son of God."

I ask "What passed for faith and what passed as presumption?"

I too tend rethink traditional concepts and explore exactly what is th worhip God seeks.'


As for Darwin - a few years ago back in Boston where I lived, the local newspaper came out with an "article" favoring the militant defense of the theory of Evolution which had come under some scrutiny.

When I opened up to the page where the article was suppose to be in consisted of a full page photograph of the aged bearded gentleman Charles Darwin. There was no article that I could see. There was just this awe inspiring mugshot of the distinguished and wise old "father" of Evolution.

That full page photo seemed to me to invoke a sense of worship, awe, reverence at the WISE old Scientist. The Boston Globe paper reserved one entire page to this iconic portrait as thier defense of Darwin's theory.

I tell you, it rivaled any fresca on the ceiling of St. Peter's cathedral in Rome. The purpose of this full length picture of the distinguished bearded old man seemed an attempt to inspire a kind of worship.

And I have seen other such portraits of artists seeking to depict the "sacredness" of Evolution Theory in the minds of the laity. I didn't detect a nickel's worth of difference between them and the stain glass religious portraits of the "saints" in some edifices of Christiandom.

Originally posted by jaywill
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When I see religious people worship, I come to think of jews at the wall in Jerusalem, christians talking in tongues, extatic gatherings in tents with a preacher and hallelujahs and all.
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This matter also gets me thinking. Probably different from you. It makes me open up the ...[text shortened]... in glass religious portraits of the "saints" in some edifices of Christiandom.[/b]

To publish a picture of a man or woman is not worshipping. If that was the case, very much worshipping is going on. Darwin or Einstein, Madonna or Caruso, Mother Theresa or Nelson Mandela, we all like them (?), but not their person, rather what they have done or are doing.

But that is in my definition. No god of my liking wants to be worshipped. Definitely not the christian god, who in 'love' of the mankind kills nearly everyone, according to the bible, killing people if they are not worshipping him, punishing people, quite cruelly. No thank you, not for me. He is not worth worshipping from my behalf.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
To publish a picture of a man or woman is not worshipping. If that was the case, very much worshipping is going on. Darwin or Einstein, Madonna or Caruso, Mother Theresa or Nelson Mandela, we all like them (?), but not their person, rather what they have done or are doing.

But that is in my definition. No god of my liking wants to be worshipped. Defini ...[text shortened]... g people, quite cruelly. No thank you, not for me. He is not worth worshipping from my behalf.

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To publish a picture of a man or woman is not worshipping. If that was the case, very much worshipping is going on. Darwin or Einstein, Madonna or Caruso, Mother Theresa or Nelson Mandela, we all like them (?), but not their person, rather what they have done or are doing.
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Well, when you open a newspaper expecting to read a well reasoned apologetic of a science theory, you don't expect an iconic religious portrait.

And the very reason some Evos come to the Spirituality Forum and speak of all they know about Darwinism, is really their declaration that their "Spirituality" is really Science. Or at least God is not needed because some science concepts is all that is needed.

Take the case of Charles Darwin. I think history will eventually recognize that his biggest contribution to culture was that he furnished the Atheist with a plausible, if not tenable, alternative Paley's argument for God's existence by design in biological nature.

Darwin equiped the atheist with a rational for the non-necessity of an Ultimate Designer in creation. A college professor proudly proclaimed the first day of class that an amino acid was his god.

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But that is in my definition. No god of my liking wants to be worshipped. Definitely not the christian god, who in 'love' of the mankind kills nearly everyone, according to the bible, killing people if they are not worshipping him, punishing people, quite cruelly. No thank you, not for me. He is not worth worshipping from my behalf.
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How come so many billions of people are alive then? The sun, the rain benefits them regardless of whether they love God or not. The benefits of creation are thier freely for billions of earth dwellers. Do we see the sun only shining on Christians? Do we see rain only falling on Christians?

That is ignorant talk you are talking. You're just unthankful. You just never thought to turn around and look over the 365 days of the past year and thank God for anything, not even the smallest thing.

God has afforded you many days of happiness. In spite of some problems you have had in life like all other people, yet God has alloted you many days of happiness. Did you ever turn around and say "God, if you're there, I want to THANK you."?

Haven't you had many days of happiness in spite of some problems? Did you suffer each day because you raise the flag of denying God any belief or worship?

You're just unthankful. Worship toward God can be as simple as saying "God I want to THANK you." I would be miserable to live in the unthankful spiritual darkness that you live in.

Originally posted by jaywill
A number of people have written that they do not want to worship any god. Don't think that because they say this they do not have their idols which they do practically worship.

I'm pretty sure all the unwilling worshippers have something they practically bow down to in their being saying "Deliver me my god."

What idol have they put in place of God? want to be a fool for Jesus Christ, I know it is just a matter of "Whose fool are you?"

…What idol have they put in place of God?..…

So you are talking about atheists -An atheists may or may not have an idol but why would an atheists ‘need’ an idol? -I don’t.

….Darwin, MONEY, Entertainment, their company, their retirement plan, the earth, their schooling, the opposite sex ?
.… (spelling corrected)

Well, I think I am a typical example of an atheist and, although I like Darwin because of his clever and rational deductions, I don’t exactly “idolise” him -I mean, I don’t, for example, have a picture of him in my bedroom so that I can see his image every day etc and somehow I think most atheists (and theists -don't see why there would be much difference) don’t idolise him a great deal although there must be a few that do.

As for the other things on your list above:
Idolise a company? (perhaps they generally do in Japan?) A retirement plan? the earth!!!? (perhaps an extremist environmentalist nut might?) a school? -Come off it -I haven’t seen anyone, not atheist nor theist, ever idolise any of these things and I certainly don’t!
Idolise the opposite sex? Yes, you are correct there -I bow down in worship of the holly bosoms.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
To publish a picture of a man or woman is not worshipping. If that was the case, very much worshipping is going on. Darwin or Einstein, Madonna or Caruso, Mother Theresa or Nelson Mandela, we all like them (?), but not their person, rather what they have done or are doing.

But that is in my definition. No god of my liking wants to be worshipped. Defini g people, quite cruelly. No thank you, not for me. He is not worth worshipping from my behalf.

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No god of my liking ...
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One thing about the Bible's God. There is always something somewhere that He did that someone somewhere didn't like.

If a person likes EVERYTHING she or he reads in the Bible that person must be an angel. There are some things in the Bible which really comfort me. But there are other things that I wish weren't there. There not to MY liking. Somewhere the Bible steps on someone's toes. It is equal opportunity offender.

What is a god to YOUR Liking or MY liking ? That is an illusion. What I see in the Bible is a God with whom somewhere I am incompatible with. And He doesn't change. So I have to change.

To be more to the point, I need to look to Him to change me in some area of my sinful life that we may BE compatible. But a God totally to MY liking ?

That's just a reflection of my warped self, this side of the fall of man.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
[b]…What idol have they put in place of God?..…

So you are talking about atheists -An atheists may or may not have an idol but why would an atheists ‘need’ an idol? -I don’t.

….Darwin, MONEY, Entertainment, their company, their retirement plan, the earth, their schooling, the opposite sex ?
.… (spelling corrected)

Well, I thi dolise the opposite sex? Yes, you are correct there -I bow down in worship of the holly bosoms.[/b]

I really shouldn't be too hard on Evolution. Rejection of acceptance of Evolution is not a criteria for salvation.

It is just that it is a modern icon that makes a handy example. When I came to Christ I was FULL of belief in evolution. He accepted me as I was.

There are many things we can enjoy in this creation. They are there for us and we should enjoy them.

But for me nothing can compete with God Himself. Nothing can compare with God Himself. How can I possible exalt the creation over the Creator?

I would fear God and thank Him for such a beautiful part of His creation as women. There is nothing wrong with that. Have you ever thanked God for the beauty He created in romantic love and in the form and personality of the opposite sex?

If God can create someone so desireable, just think how desireable He Himself must be.

Sorry, for me nothing of creation, though really nice, can possible replace Christ. Nothing can compete with splendour and glory of the Lord Jesus Christ or of God.

You'll enjoy the married life much more if you stop and THANK God for what He has arranged in the attractive and holy relationship between you and your woman.

Don't gloat and don't be so proud.

The Creator of humanity knows more about sex than you do.

High quality romance requires self control. I am not impressed with people vaunting their lust in a prideful way.

You need the Holy Spirit and wonderful self control to enjoy the proper and highest married life.

Macho lust won't impress your spouse for the long run.

Originally posted by jaywill
One thing about the Bible's God. There is always something somewhere that He did that someone somewhere didn't like.

If a person likes EVERYTHING she or he reads in the Bible that person must be an angel. There are some things in the Bible which really comfort me. But there are other things that I wish weren't there. There not to MY liking. Somewhere th ...[text shortened]... MY liking ?

That's just a reflection of my warped self, this side of the fall of man.

That's your view and your religion. That's not mine.
I hope you respect my views as I respect yours.
Thank you for this nice conversation. 🙂

Originally posted by FabianFnas
A schizoid god is not one I want to worship...

Or an omnipotent god who is so needy that it requires worship but not omnipotent enough to give it what it requires. The Jewish, Christian and Islamic god must either be human or some kind of a space alien visiting, tinkering with earth culture (and failing).

Originally posted by FabianFnas
You say he knows *me*? And yet he doesn't care.

You say he hears every prayers? And yet he do doesn't care. Who listened at those jews in the concentration camps? Who listens at the dying Palestinians who are killed in His name?

When I turn the key in my car, I espect it to work. The key and the engine is listening more at me, because it delivers wh ...[text shortened]... hat? No, he isn't.

Yet you say that he cares and listens prayers? I rather rely on my car.

You're confused....it's that simple.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
A schizoid god is not one I want to worship...

No, but your Volvo that starts everytime is your God, no?