Why does God hide?

Originally posted by jaywill
Better stated:

You have no formula or statement of scientific certainty demonstrating with mathematical precision and beyond all doubt the non-existence of God.

I have no formula or statement of scientific certainty demonstrating with mathematical precision and beyond all doubt the non-existence of Santa.

-So am I wrong in my assertion that I KNOW there is no Santa?

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
I have no formula or statement of scientific certainty demonstrating with mathematical precision and beyond all doubt the non-existence of [b]Santa.

-So am I wrong in my assertion that I KNOW there is no Santa?[/b]

More posturing.

"Let's pretend that God and Santa Claus are virtually equivalent concepts."

Originally posted by jaywill
More posturing.

"Let's pretend that God and Santa Claus are virtually equivalent concepts."

They ARE different existential claims and I didn’t imply otherwise but, the fact remains, there is no logical reason for BELIEVING them to be true (hence the purpose of my comparison -I am NOT saying they are the same but rather there is no more LOGICAL reason to believe one than the other is true) -would you deny this fact?

OK, I tell you my story, this is my true experience.
There is no place for all what I did. English is not my native language.
God shows himself to you when you are ready.
I stood in front of God twice,...
I do not have any doubt that He is still here, everyone who tells that fear from truth about us what we are, sin esp. pride, ego,... holds us from Him is right. He teach us about love.
I broke first commandement when He asked me to stay in one situation in my life as it is written "you cannot do anything without me". I refused Gods help, my shame. I refused to know him thru fear, and He knows that,... I was stonecold to Him.
I was looking for the way to ask Him what it was all about. It took me four months to get there face to face thru highest commandent.
I was begging.
One monday at crossroad
"What Iam playing for, God knows everything about me!"
my heart did flip and my spirit or soul turned 180degrees back.
I saw my backbone /I broke my ego/
"Dear God you know how Iam beaten with love, you know that its impossible for me to accept anything, is only way to know you thru fear? How sad!"
I said it with all my love in my heart, in my soul and in my mind to Him, but my mouth translated one part "you know that its impossible for me to accept all". This is part about judgement day "...and your body will talk against you." Heart started to shine, I went to open place, beam from heart touched blu...
Alfa and Omega, God and human,
God really created human at his picture.
When we were shaking hands He turned nose to heaven and I knew, what I did,... pride is sin against faith.
First commandement is about Gods virtues Love Faith Hope, Human virtues are somewhere in inernet :-) you shoud find all four...
Sin against Love is non aceptance existence of God,
Sin against Faith is PRIDE,...Sin against Hope...
I lost my faith, so I came to God thru knowledge, its a pitty,...
I lost my gifts,...

I was sitting in my office and tried to apologize to God,...
"Jesus you are so bountiful and good God. Why do you waste your time with such stupid as me?"
How far He was?
He was right behind me, He was sad hearing that. So stupid Iam.

Remember
1.There is nothing impossible for God.
2.God never do you bad or harm.
3.When God is present means that it belongs to you and you should accept this,...
4.Never send Him away,...
6.He will give you all if your love to Him is pure
7.He wants be your friend
8.alfa and omega means Iam He.
9.it is possible to see and touch God... I did... and it is not lie...
10.always go to him with open heart and believe
11.help other people
12.God shows himself to you when you are ready.

Believe God, Dont be silly as me, dont stop, continue, find Him,...
Learn from my mistakes.
You will find him thru highest commandement...
Find out what are the commandements about at first,...
Beggars/small people show you who you really are...
Jesus Gods son is for me authority. He is Love and Light in person.
Sorry, Iam still not able to write all what happend to me and all I know.
Maybe this helps someone.
I know and believe all in bible is truth, I have that experience.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Good and evil [b]did exist. They were just unknown to humanity.

Or so the story goes.[/b]

In the system which those two found themselves in, good and evil (as a system) was not a factor. Their individual and collective decisions allowed that system to take the place of the system originally presented them.

There was nothing for them to be innocent of, as the system emphatically did not exist until such time as their personal decisions introduced the planet to the system we now find ourselves in.

You may as well say they were innocent of modern banking concepts or quantum physics. Ignorant, perhaps, but certainly not innocent.

And, with respect to that ignorance, while they certainly had no idea what the total ramifications of their decisions would yield, they nonetheless were very clear on both the immediate and (for them) long-term results: dying, they would die. Specifically, as they died the slow death of physical termination, they would be dead spiritually.

To describe their pre-Fall state as innocent assumes something which simply did not exist on the planet at the time, nor could they have any inkling of the same from which to be declared "innocent."

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Originally posted by dystoniac
[b]You're confused....it's that simple.

That's you argument? Nothing more? So the rest of my posting you think you agree with? 🙂

Originally posted by dystoniac
No, but your Volvo that starts everytime is your God, no?

Why do you think my Volvo is my god? I don't understand. Don't you have ...[text shortened]... u cannot find anything else wrong in my postings? Oh, well, I take that as a compliment! 🙂[/b]

You have very low standards for accepting compliments....you must be constantly pleased with yourself...

Originally posted by dystoniac
You have very low standards for accepting compliments....you must be constantly pleased with yourself...

If even you don't find any wrongs with my postings, yes, that make me feel comfortable. 🙂

Originally posted by FabianFnas
If even you don't find any wrongs with my postings, yes, that make me feel comfortable. 🙂

I find a lot of denial in your posts. I know that you long for the truth. The truth is within your grasp if you really want it. What went so wrong in your life that you adamently deny God. Do a lot of Swedes practice atheism? If so, why?

Originally posted by dystoniac
I find a lot of denial in your posts. I know that you long for the truth. The truth is within your grasp if you really want it. What went so wrong in your life that you adamently deny God. Do a lot of Swedes practice atheism? If so, why?

Yes, of course you find a lot of religious denyal in my posts. Like many in a constant denyal of evolution by christians in your country. If you want the truth, then you have to open your eyes.

Atheism is not practiced, from where did you get that?

So far I haven't found anything in ypur postings that says that I'm wrong in what I write, more than you have a strong opinion against my postings. I find this as a sign that you agree with me a lot.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
In the system which those two found themselves in, good and evil (as a system) was not a factor. Their individual and collective decisions allowed that system to take the place of the system originally presented them.

There was nothing for them to be innocent of, as the system emphatically did not exist until such time as their personal decisions intro ...[text shortened]... at the time, nor could they have any inkling of the same from which to be declared "innocent."

What exactly do you mean by "good and evil (as a system)"?

I think I'll stick with the word I chose - innocent - especially when the very first definition I find is:
1 a: free from guilt or sin especially through lack of knowledge of evil : blameless <an innocent child>
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innocent

Sure, they were told they'd die, but were they clear on what it really means? They had never seen or experienced death. Had no idea what it was like to lose a loved one to death. Had no idea what it was like even to watch a small animal die. It was a nebulous threat for them.

To describe their pre-Fall state as innocent assumes something which simply did not exist on the planet at the time, nor could they have any inkling of the same from which to be declared "innocent."

Lucifer was evil. He existed on the planet at the time.
You keep using the word 'exist', but the word I tend to remember in the story is 'knowledge'. Again, I await clarification of what exactly sprang into existence on the planet that fateful day.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
They ARE different existential claims and I didn’t imply otherwise but, the fact remains, there is no logical reason for BELIEVING them to be true (hence the purpose of my comparison -I am NOT saying they are the same but rather there is no more LOGICAL reason to believe one than the other is true) -would you deny this fact?

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but rather there is no more LOGICAL reason to believe one than the other is true) -would you deny this fact?
===========================================

If I ask myself:

"How come there is not candy in every stocking and toys under every Christmas tree on Christmas morning?"

That question does not carry the same weight as:

"How come something exists rather than nothing?"

I would say that there is not logical reason for denying the existence of God.

All you will do to answer the questions is raise so called reasonable doubts of other possibilities drawing on fuzzy theories of science, none of which you are really certain of or frankly understand that well yourself.

The idea is to just throw enough dust in the air to keep people at most distracted thinking about possibilies of alternatives to God, an ultimate Governor and Creator that willed all things into existence by divine power (exhaustive technical details unsure ).

Your suggestion that Santa Claus and the existence of God are equivalent logical delimmas, I think is an insult to many thoughtful minds throughout the ages.

Drop by the library, say at the religion and philosophy section and compare how many books you have dealing with the problem of Santa Claus's existence with treatese on the existence of God.

They don't seem to me to be roughly equivalent logical delimmas.

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But rather there is no more LOGICAL reason to believe one than the other is true) -would you deny this fact?
===========================================

Yes I would deny it.

Jesus Christ said He was God, but also acted like God, and is solidly established in human history.

Sure, a lot of people could make a claim to be God and do. Not a lot of people put on the demonstration that Jesus Christ put on.

Do you deny this ?

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]======================================
but rather there is no more LOGICAL reason to believe one than the other is true) -would you deny this fact?
===========================================

If I ask myself:

"How come there is not candy in every stocking and toys under every Christmas tree on Christmas morning?"

That existence of God.

They don't seem to me to be roughly equivalent logical delimmas.[/b]

…If I ask myself:

"How come there is not candy in every stocking and toys under every Christmas tree on Christmas morning?"

That question does not carry the same weight as:

"How come something exists rather than nothing?"
..…

These aren’t the same pair of questions as “is there a Santa?” and “is there a god?” just as the two questions “is there a Santa?” and “is there a god?” themselves are not the same questions. The only significant thing the questions “is there a Santa?” and “is there a god?” have in common is that they ask if something X exists when there is no more LOGICAL reason to believe the answer to one is “yes” than the other. Your two questions above don’t even have this in common.

….All you will DO to answer the questions is raise so called reasonable doubts of other possibilities drawing on fuzzy theories of science, none of which you are really certain of or frankly understand that well yourself.
..…

When and where did I do this? -I am not implying here that I never drawing on science because sometimes I do but I certainly did not in my last post.

….Your suggestion that Santa Claus and the existence of God are equivalent logical delimmas
… (my emphasis)

Honestly not sure if I did or didn’t suggest this because I don’t know what you mean by “equivalent logical delimmas”. I asked my brother who is a lot cleverer than me and he didn’t know either.
I tried looking up “delimmas” and got: http://www.answers.com/topic/moral-dilemmas-1
and http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dilemmas but not absolutely sure which meaning of the word you mean and exactly how you mean it in this context. Can you rephrase that using different words? (preferably without the word “delimmas&rdquo😉

…. Drop by the library, say at the religion and philosophy section and compare how many books you have dealing with the problem of Santa Claus's existence with treatese on the existence of God.
…

that’s why, at the bottom post of page 4 of this thread, I said:

“…explain your rational in believing that there is no Santa EVEN if, HYPOTHETICALLY, EVERYBODY else believed there was a Santa….” (my emphasis)

Note the word “HYPOTHETICALLY” in the above -I am NOT suggesting nor have I ever implied that lots of people DO believe in Santa. You still haven’t explained this rational that I requested above.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
[b]…If I ask myself:

"How come there is not candy in every stocking and toys under every Christmas tree on Christmas morning?"

That question does not carry the same weight as:

"How come something exists rather than nothing?"
..…

These aren’t the same questions.

….All you will DO to answer the questions is raise so calle HETICALLY” in the above. You still haven’t explained this rational that I requested above.

===========================
These aren’t the same questions.
=============================== [/b]

They are two questions related to the existence of the two.


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When and where did I do this? -certainly not in my last post.
==========================

Not in your last post. Some time ago.



======================
that’s why, at the bottom post of page 4 of this thread, I said:

“…explain your rational in believing that there is no Santa EVEN if, HYPOTHETICALLY, EVERYBODY else believed there was a Santa….” (my emphasis)

Note the word “HYPOTHETICALLY” in the above. You still haven’t explained this rational that I requested above.
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Did you answer the question why something exists instead of nothing?

The existence of the universe is a logical reason for believing in God.

I'm not going to expend energy debating about Santa Claus.

Originally posted by jaywill
The existence of the universe is a logical reason for believing in God.

The same argument can be used to be a moslem, or any other religion believing in a creation of supernatural causes. The cristian god is only one alternative.