Originally posted by serigado A question for Christians out there.
After reading and trying to understand your reasoning, I must ask this question. There's a lot more evidence that the Qu'ran is the exact word of God (your same God) than the Bible. It has lesser inconsistencies, and makes a lot more sense.
Why don't you accept it? Because you don't like it? Because of cultural reasons?
The truth is, by your own arguments, you shouldn't have a reason to reject Islam.
The whole of Judaic-Christian-Islamic religion is based upon this person called Abraham who was willing to murder his own son because a voice, which he felt was "God" , told him to. In a rational world this is called mental illness. And to base a religion upon this action is absurd.
Islam only caught on because a volcanic eruption in the Pacific Ocean caused crop failures and Muhammed had resources to feed people.
Have we had a day in the last millenium where someone was not murdered in the name of one of these three religions???
Seems they are truly "The Sons of Abraham". Born of blood and in blood they shall remain. The foundation of a house tells all.
Originally posted by caissad4 The whole of Judaic-Christian-Islamic religion is based upon this person called Abraham who was willing to murder his own son because a voice, which he felt was "God" , told him to. In a rational world this is called mental illness. And to base a religion upon this action is absurd.
Islam only caught on because a volcanic eruption in the Pacific Ocean ca ...[text shortened]... Abraham". Born of blood and in blood they shall remain. The foundation of a house tells all.
Not true. The religions are based on a vast array of things and the story of Abraham is not essential to any of them. If his story never got included in their religions wittings, the religions would be little different.
Originally posted by serigado There's no dispute to the originality of the Qu'ran, that's what I mean.
Supposedly Muhammed memorized all of it, transmitted to his partners, and eventually it was written all at once, with minimal deturpations.
You say there is no dispute then proceed to suggest that it originated from God. So either there is a dispute or you are Muslim?
With both the Quran and the Bible, the original authors are irrelevant. The key issue is whether or not they were inspired by God. People make that judgment based on various factors including:
1. the word of respected people including their parents or religious or political leaders.
2. their identification with some of the content.
3. which they saw first.
4. belief obtained prior to actually critically reading the document.
and others.
Originally posted by twhitehead You say there is no dispute then proceed to suggest that it originated from God. So either there is a dispute or you are Muslim?
With both the Quran and the Bible, the original authors are irrelevant. The key issue is whether or not they were inspired by God. People make that judgment based on various factors including:
1. the word of respected people ...[text shortened]... y saw first.
4. belief obtained prior to actually critically reading the document.
and others.
There's not dispute among believers 😀
The point is: if you are willing to make the leap-faith to believe a certain religion is the right one, what makes you choose one or the other?
Why do Christians (who obviously made this leap) don't believe the same way in the word of the Qu'ran? I could ask vice-versa, but I see a lot more Christians here willing to discuss.
I'd love a Christian to answer this post's original question.... forget about the Qu'ran being the exact word of God, that's not what I want to debate.
Originally posted by pawnhandler I'm wondering how many Muslims think there's no objective reason for not choosing Christianity.
Muslims have a point; The Father said "You should have no God before me" but the Christians seem to put Jesus before the Father. To defend this, they then they babble meaningless, profound sounding, mystical sounding stuff like "Trinity! They're the same but they're not!"
Christians often have graven images of Jesus in their churches, etc.
Originally posted by caissad4 The whole of Judaic-Christian-Islamic religion is based upon this person called Abraham who was willing to murder his own son because a voice, which he felt was "God" , told him to. In a rational world this is called mental illness. And to base a religion upon this action is absurd.
Islam only caught on because a volcanic eruption in the Pacific Ocean ca ...[text shortened]... Abraham". Born of blood and in blood they shall remain. The foundation of a house tells all.
Mohammed had resources? Didn't he TAKE resources from others? He was a bandit.
There's nothing that tells us that the Qu'ran is less true then the Bible.
Why don't you accept it its teachings? Because you don't like it? Because of cultural reasons?
The truth is, by your own arguments, you shouldn't have a reason to reject Islam.
Originally posted by serigado The point is: if you are willing to make the leap-faith to believe a certain religion is the right one, what makes you choose one or the other?
I think I answered that. A Christian cannot give you a good answer because they are duty bound to back up their side as being 'factual'.
I think it is very important to note in discussions of this nature, that a very significant number of people are not very strongly tied to their religions. ie their beliefs are remarkably flexible and do not necessarily match the stated beliefs of their congregation / denomination / church. I don't know about other countries, but in Zambia, most people have other beliefs including belief in witchcraft etc which are on the face of it incompatible with Christianity. Also I have know a number of people to change their denomination or even religion for the sake of marriage. I know of at least one person who became Muslim in order to marry a Muslim, and I know more couples in which one of the partners joined their spouses denomination than couples that go to separate churches on Sundays.
The question of why shouldn't a christian convert to another religon is simple to answer, it would mean renouncing our belief in Jesus being divine and the saviour of the world.
Much of faith is based on personal experience. Whilst I read the bible that doesn't make me a christian rather the personal experience of Christ changing my life for the better and accepting him as my savour.
Originally posted by gearies The question of why shouldn't a christian convert to another religon is simple to answer, it would mean renouncing our belief in Jesus being divine and the saviour of the world.
Much of faith is based on personal experience. Whilst I read the bible that doesn't make me a christian rather the personal experience of Christ changing my life for the better and accepting him as my savour.
[/b]And from where does belief in Jesus being divine come? In what part is it best then Islam's teachings? A belief is absolute, so must have an absolute cause. If it comes from personal experience or taste, it loses everything and is worth nothing, because it is relative.
A faith in something absolute is in true relative to where you were born and to your personal experiences. So how can someone be so sure of it???
Originally posted by serigado And from where does belief in Jesus being divine come? In what part is it best then Islam's teachings? A belief is absolute, so must have an absolute cause. If it comes from personal experience or taste, it loses everything and is worth nothing, because it is relative.
A faith in something absolute is in true relative to where you were born and to your personal experiences. So how can someone be so sure of it???[/b]
Because the spirit of God comes into you and convicts you of the truth. To an unbeliever it sounds like foolishness but to someone who believes this makes perfect sense.
Originally posted by chappy1 Because the spirit of God comes into you and convicts you of the truth. To an unbeliever it sounds like foolishness but to someone who believes this makes perfect sense.
You left me unarmed.
Don't you think that "spirit of God" is explained by psychology? That's it's only a personal/social phenomena?
How are you sure it's the spirit of God? Can't it just be that someone decided to call that feeling "spirit of God" to gather more followers to the cause of that Christian religion?
And why can't I feel it? (nor anyone I know...)
Why don't you accept Islam
04 Mar '08 06:12
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