Why don't you accept Islam

Originally posted by serigado
You left me unarmed.
Don't you think that "spirit of God" is explained by psychology? That's it's only a personal/social phenomena?
How are you sure it's the spirit of God? Can't it just be that someone decided to call that feeling "spirit of God" to gather more followers to the cause of that Christian religion?
And why can't I feel it? (nor anyone I know...)

No I don't think it can be explained by psychology. It is supernatural. First of all it's not a feeling, it's a conviction. You know that it's true without a doubt. You don't necessarily feel any different when you become a believer but you can be sure that it's there due to the promise and the fact that the more you grow in faith the more your perspective on things of this world changes.

No it's not a hoax to get more followers because if it was a hoax it would have been disgarded long ago.

You can't feel it because you have not given your life to Jesus. If you give you life you will receive it, as is the promise.

Originally posted by chappy1
No I don't think it can be explained by psychology. It is supernatural. First of all it's not a feeling, it's a conviction. You know that it's true without a doubt. You don't necessarily feel any different when you become a believer but you can be sure that it's there due to the promise and the fact that the more you grow in faith the more your perspecti ...[text shortened]... given your life to Jesus. If you give you life you will receive it, as is the promise.

You're the first one (defending the faith position) who's actually making sense in these religious debates.
Not that I think that you're correct 🙂

But a conviction is a feeling, and might be an illusion. Do you think you would get it if you were to grow in a different environment without the influence of other religious people?
I'm not saying it's a hoax. But people just might be projecting in a wrong way their feelings. Yet, the church institution and religious phenomenon exist and are well established in accepting the willing.
People have an innate predisposition for wanting answers, for seeking acceptance, for fearing the unknown. And all of this religious stuff fits right in like a glove. You feel that "spirit", because YOU are the source of the spirit . You want it badly, even if it is unconscientiously .

You can believe in the message Jesus gave. I'm very fond of it too. But following all the premises of Christianity is ridicularizing the message of Jesus. Jesus doesn't have to be god or son of god to be right in his philosophy.
Some thought so, and created the whole god-son of god myth... It made sense 2000 years ago, but now, it's simply obsolete...

Originally posted by serigado
You're the first one (defending the faith position) who's actually making sense in these religious debates.
Not that I think that you're correct 🙂

But a conviction is a feeling, and might be an illusion. Do you think you would get it if you were to grow in a different environment without the influence of other religious people?
I'm not saying it's a h ...[text shortened]... god-son of god myth... It made sense 2000 years ago, but now, it's simply obsolete...

You know I've responded to other people on different threads and most dismissed me as an idiot or insane because I have faith. I must say that I appreiciate your "tone" in this conversation. I really do.

Well, my friend, to attempt and answer your question to the best of my ability I do think that I would receive the Holy Spirit if I asked for it no matter what my environment. There are followers of Christ worldwide in every kind of environment imaginable. To go off on a tangent a bit it's not really the religion that matters anyway, it's the relationship one has with Jesus. You're probably thinking that if I was in a Buddhist or Islamic environment would I even think to ask it, right? I leave that up to God. God draws his people to him eventually somehow no matter the situation, no matter the environment.

Conviction is not a feeling, it is a fixed and strong belief (from the dictionary). I also do not believe it to be an illusion because of what's happened in my life since I became a believer. I now view life on earth as if I am simply passing through on my way to eternity. Where I used to be afraid of death I am no longer. Where I used to be angry, bitter, frustrated, jealous - I am no longer. I used to hold grudges against people and curse constantly and I don't any more. Where I used to have addictions I now find that I am able to resist. My views on domestic and world events have changed drastically. Where I always used to think of only me, what was good for me, what would make me comfortable, what would make me happy, how could I make more money- I now try and put others first and I try to find the good in all people. Believe me, I'm a work in progress- I have a long way to go but these are just a few examples of what's happened to me. Do you really think I could have done all of this on my own. NO WAY!! I tried! It's impossible to do it on your own. It only happened for me when I invited the Holy Spirit in my heart.

No, my friend, I am not the source of the Spirit. I most definately will NOT take credit for that! But you're right about the fact that people want it so badly. What is the one thing people want the most? To know they're loved and to know they're forgiven. A believer has that in Jesus Christ. I honestly can't think of something more joyful than that.

Jesus Christ is who he said he was. He does have to be divine to complete who he is..........who he ALWAYS has been since the beginning of time. He has to be who he said he was or his whole promise of forgiveness and salvation was a lie. Well it's not a lie. It's not a myth. It's real, all of it, every word. Why would you say that the God/son story would make sense 2000 years ago but now is obsolete? Is humankind now so different from 2000 years ago? Take away all of the technology and discoveries over the centuries because that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about human nature. It's still the same. We're all still seeking and we all stumble along in life hoping for something to cling to. It's not obsolete, if anything it applies more now then before because now we're closer to the end.

Why dont you accept the flying spaghetti monster? The flying spaghetti monster created the world, and there is no reason to be fooled by false gods like Allah, Mohammed, Jesus, Moses, Bejeesus, Najibullah, Buddha, Burkan al islam, Afghanistan, PM dawn, ayatollah kalb ibnil kalb, or any of the other false gods.
Fear the spaghetti monster!

Originally posted by serigado
And from where does belief in Jesus being divine come? In what part is it best then Islam's teachings? A belief is absolute, so must have an absolute cause. If it comes from personal experience or taste, it loses everything and is worth nothing, because it is relative.
A faith in something absolute is in true relative to where you were born and to your personal experiences. So how can someone be so sure of it???[/b]

Because that's what christianity is if you accept like I do that Jesus rose from the dead. You either believe or you don't there are no ifs or buts.

Yes there is no physical proof but faith doesn't need that, Take the actions of the disciples.

A few days after seeing their leader of 3 years die a most horrible death (and there are records of that from Roman accounts) a group who must have been terrifed for their own safety suddenly throw off the fear of a similiar fate to profess his teachings, what could have brought that about?.

Beliefs simply don't have to be based on empirical evidence.

Originally posted by gearies
Because that's what christianity is if you accept like I do that Jesus rose from the dead. You either believe or you don't there are no ifs or buts.

Yes there is no physical proof but faith doesn't need that, Take the actions of the disciples.

A few days after seeing their leader of 3 years die a most horrible death (and there are records of that ...[text shortened]... ld have brought that about?.

Beliefs simply don't have to be based on empirical evidence.

Believe might not have physical corroboration, but without justification is simply a stupidity. You need to have some sort of evidence to justify your beliefs. That's why Christians try so hard to fit their cosmogony of the Bible with science. And to corroborate every little sentence in the Bible with reality. Because it must make sense and be coherent for it to be really trusted.

Originally posted by serigado
Believe might not have physical corroboration, but without justification is simply a stupidity. You need to have some sort of evidence to justify your beliefs. That's why Christians try so hard to fit their cosmogony of the Bible with science. And to corroborate every little sentence in the Bible with reality. Because it must make sense and be coherent for it to be really trusted.

And what to use your line of thought is belief without physical evidence?. You seem to contradict your own argumen? And incidentially are not the 3 main religions based to a degree on the bible?.

Christians I know don't believe the world was created in 4004BC or whenever, merely that God created the universe.

Originally posted by moderationman
Why dont you accept the flying spaghetti monster? The flying spaghetti monster created the world, and there is no reason to be fooled by false gods like Allah, Mohammed, Jesus, Moses, Bejeesus, Najibullah, Buddha, Burkan al islam, Afghanistan, PM dawn, ayatollah kalb ibnil kalb, or any of the other false gods.
Fear the spaghetti monster!

I believe that descriptions of the Flying Spaghetti Monster can be found within the Book of Ezekiel. It seems that the Flying Spaghetti Monster took Ezekiel away in His fiery chariot with the face of a lion.
Truth is stranger than fiction.

Originally posted by gearies
And what to use your line of thought is belief without physical evidence?. You seem to contradict your own argumen? And incidentially are not the 3 main religions based to a degree on the bible?.

Christians I know don't believe the world was created in 4004BC or whenever, merely that God created the universe.

Belief without evidence is belief the same way. Simply you can qualify it as unjustified belief, or stupid belief, or whatever.

Christians that don't believe the Bible as a whole are being incoherent, but at least they're a lot smarter than "literallists". So, to them, only parts of the Bible they personally like are true. What is the Bible for, then, if it is so dependent on human opinion? Why do people quote from it if it can take 2 completely different meanings?
Would Christianity exist without the Bible?

Originally posted by serigado
Christians that don't believe the Bible as a whole are being incoherent, but at least they're a lot smarter than "literallists".

It's possible to believe the Bible as a whole without reading it literally.

Originally posted by Palynka
It's possible to believe the Bible as a whole without reading it literally.

But there are many dubious matters that are not subject to interpretations. Either it was that way or the Bible is wrong in that matter.
What most christians (that I know) do is just put the controversial subjects under the carpet.

Are you saying now that all sources of religious text are absolutely right and not open to challenge?. I thought they were all written by man?

My dear friend, I am experiencing a similar journey to the one you speak of being on; an amazing, wonderful, peaceful, joyous and purely magical journey. Sure, bad things happen to me from time to time, sadnesss comes and goes but that's ok too.
I gave many years fearing death, trying to think of ways to evade it even. I cared little for the well being of others. No human being could ever have helped me.

Today I am no longer afraid. I stopped looking outward for answers, hel, fulfillment and so on. Everything I needed, or will ever need is within me. Call it God, call it Jesus, Call it Mohomed or Allah... Call it what you will for I have no need to label it; It serves me well and I try my best to serve it equally well. If I were to choose a single word to describe it I would choose the word Magic, for that is what it truely is.

To my friend who started this thread, I say this, every religion that I have ever encountered - incuding many the pagan ones - all are merely signposts pionting in the direction of this Magic, sadly, too few people are able to see this, perhaps through the smoke and blood of religious wars? Peace and Love to all

Originally posted by echo
My dear friend, I am experiencing a similar journey to the one you speak of being on; an amazing, wonderful, peaceful, joyous and purely magical journey. Sure, bad things happen to me from time to time, sadnesss comes and goes but that's ok too.
I gave many years fearing death, trying to think of ways to evade it even. I cared little for the well being of oth ...[text shortened]... able to see this, perhaps through the smoke and blood of religious wars? Peace and Love to all

Now that's what religion should exactly be: the search for the self and harmony with this world we don't know nothing about.
I'm glad you found it.

The final answer is much more transcendental then the one's provided by today's religions, I'm sure.

Religion is like a trip in which you carry all your belongings at the back. Once you are in your accepted religion, it's very hard to go back to the fork in the road. You are committed already. It's like asking a Muslim why he hasn't accepted the Bible. One thing in Islam that I don't like is the acceptance of polygamy. Is that doctrine accepted wholeheartedly by Muslim women? It's not a question of which holy book is better. As a Christian, I have to accept the Bible as my holy book. At the same time, I respect Islam's holy book. 😉