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Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe following best answer was given on YAHOO! Answers by wefmeister in response to the question, Why when Jesus preached forgiveness do evangelicals support the death penalty?
No one is denying that the death penalty may be justified and that it may even have a scriptural basis, however what is of serious concern is why evangelicals, in view of Christ teaching of mercy, forgiveness and seeking rehabilitation before punitive action are so vociferous in their support of it. Surely if they were being guided by Christ's examp ...[text shortened]... t ardent supporters for rehabilitation, but its not the case, is it. It simply makes no sense.
Forgiveness is for those who forgive, and repent of their sin.
The death sentence was instituted under the Noahic Covenant - before the Law of Moses....
"And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.
“Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind. "
Genesis 9:5-6
Paul even supported the death penalty against himself - if the crime warranted it; (which it did not).....
"Paul answered: “I am now standing before Caesar’s court, where I ought to be tried. I have not done any wrong to the Jews, as you yourself know very well. If, however, I am guilty of doing anything deserving death, I do not refuse to die. But if the charges brought against me by these Jews are not true, no one has the right to hand me over to them. I appeal to Caesar!”
Acts 25:10-11
May I remind you the same God who sent His Son to save sinners still condemns the wicked and unrepentant to hell.
When Jesus returns, many will hear this word......
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Matthew 25:41-46
As you see his answer actually consisted of quotes from the Holy Bible and the last quote was from Jesus. I don't see Jesus teaching mercy, forgiveness and seeking rehabilitation before punitive action in the above example.
Let me add to the quotes he gives above the following quote from Jesus:
“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
(Matthew 6:14-15 NKJV)
Even the heavenly Father does not forgive everyone, so why should you expect the Evangelicals to preach that we must forgive those that commit the most horrible crimes, like murder. The death penalty of the Mosaic Law was not done away with by Jesus and as you see above He has plans to send some away into eternal punishment.
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Originally posted by RJHindsI have not argued against that the death penalty may be Biblically substantiated or warranted, your argument is a pile of straw! The article raised the legitimate question, if Christ was merciful and forgiving why are evangelicals so vociferous in their support of the death penalty and punitive action as opposed to rehabilitation.
The following best answer was given on YAHOO! Answers by wefmeister in response to the question, Why when Jesus preached forgiveness do evangelicals support the death penalty?
[b]Forgiveness is for those who forgive, and repent of their sin.
The death sentence was instituted under the Noahic Covenant - before the Law of Moses....
"And for your lif espasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
(Matthew 6:14-15 NKJV)[/b]
There is of course Biblical evidence which I now provide for a second time (sigh) that God himself in the case of David and King Manasseh waived the death penalty because of a repentant attitude on the part of the transgressor, had he of course been an evangelical this would not have happened, considering the evangelicals love for the letter of the law which you display in your text above, rather than the spirit of the law which God demonstrated in these instances.
Christ also waived the death penalty in the famous case regarding the adulteress brought before him, retorting to her accusers, the evangelicals of the day, that he who is without sin should cast the first stone. Clearly this is a rather interesting instance of Christ applying forgiveness and mercy rather than applying the letter of the law. Isn't it.
Your text mentions nothing of a Biblical hell as a place of literal torment. The word Hell does not even appear in the original manuscripts. It mentions everlasting punishment. We know that the dead are not conscious of anything, the book of proverbs makes it clear , but because of your pagan extra Biblical beliefs you have produced an absurd and horrific caricature of God as some who would torment someone eternally for having sinned for a mere seventy or eighty years, while being prone to sin due to inherited imperfection from Adam. Do you realise how monstrous the image that you are portraying is?
Originally posted by RJHindsR J Hinds, Right wing gun nut................................1
The following best answer was given on YAHOO! Answers by wefmeister in response to the question, Why when Jesus preached forgiveness do evangelicals support the death penalty?
[b]Forgiveness is for those who forgive, and repent of their sin.
The death sentence was instituted under the Noahic Covenant - before the Law of Moses....
"And for your lif ...[text shortened]... with by Jesus and as you see above He has plans to send some away into eternal punishment.
Robbie the zealot..................................................0
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Originally posted by johnnylongwoodywhat is this, are we not Celtic, are we not one, you betray me by voicing your support for a Saxon cockerel like RJHinds? Please change it to Robbie the most illustrious holy eminence and zealot 1, Ronald Jonah Hinds, 0.
R J Hinds, Right wing gun nut................................1
Robbie the zealot..................................................0
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe pair of you are talking **&@~##@**%$.
what is this, are we not Celtic, are we not one, you betray me by voicing your support for a Saxon cockerel like RJHinds? Please change it to Robbie the most illustrious holy eminence and zealot 1, Ronald Jonah Hinds, 0.
No one ever won an argument discussing religion.
It always makes me laugh when I hear that someone went to
university and got a doctorate in divinity or theology.
It's all rubbish.
Just like the guy we used to have in the North of Ireland
Dr. Ian Paisley.
Adolf Hitler would have been more of a Christian than this Dr. Ian Paisley.
You two would be better off discussing the merits of Chardonnay over
Sauvignon blanc
Originally posted by johnnylongwoodyOn the contrary, I have made valid rational appeals to reason.
The pair of you are talking **&@~##@**%$.
No one ever won an argument discussing religion.
It always makes me laugh when I hear that someone went to
university and got a doctorate in divinity or theology.
It's all rubbish.
Just like the guy we used to have in the North of Ireland
Dr. Ian Paisley.
Adolf Hitler would have been mor ...[text shortened]... isley.
You two would be better off discussing the merits of Chardonnay over
Sauvignon blanc
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI would still rather discuss the merits of this nice Chardonnay
On the contrary, I have made valid rational appeals to reason.
that I am drinking right now. It's nicely chilled, fruity to taste
and if you get enough of it you can get wasted enough so you don't
feel the pain of the lake of fire. 🙂
Originally posted by johnnylongwoodythen take it to the IVV forum, this is spirituality
I would still rather discuss the merits of this nice Chardonnay
that I am drinking right now. It's nicely chilled, fruity to taste
and if you get enough of it you can get wasted enough so you don't
feel the pain of the lake of fire. 🙂