Originally posted by robbie carrobieAll right then, if it is true that Evangelicals, as he claims, are supportive of his accusations, it is not a fact that all Evangelicals are this way.
Not quite so fast, all the author stated was that evangelicals are the most vociferous supporters of the death penalty which seems to him strange considering Christians alleged adherence to the teachings of Christ, teaching like forgiveness and mercy. It takes no great leap of the imagination to see there is a disparity, for even though justice may ...[text shortened]... extent is what I am trying to find out.
(James 2:13) Mercy exults triumphantly over judgment
Perhaps Evangelicals are wise to the fact that most or many in Civil Government are not God fearing people.
So then again, I ask, is the government replacing God? Does rehab work? Man's basic problem is a sick heart and beyond cure. It cannot help but to sin and do evil. He needs a new heart. Is rehab going to provide that or is it God through his people, as in the church?
This government is not the ideal setting for God's will...this is not what he intended.
Let’s look at the law in Exodus 21.
There is a theme over and over in the Old Testament law, which is responsibility. God says the individual is responsible for his actions. You will see the concept of responsibility and individual responsibility all through the Old Testament law. Another thing you will see over and over again is restitution to the innocent one who is harmed. If there is an innocent person who is harmed, hurt, or stolen from, that person gets restitution. One other thing that comes up from reading through the Bible is that there is risk.
There are three themes you will see in the Old Testament law: responsibility, restitution and risk.
Exodus 21:1
These are the laws you are to set before them:
Moses is on top of Mount Sinai and God is setting the laws that Moses is to bring before the people.
Exodus 21:2
“If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything.
A Hebrew servant? When do you get to buy a human being? Through the slavery system. The Bible deals with criminals and people who can’t pay their debts via a slavery system, and I think that is important to realize. In America today, we have a slavery system also, but we disguise it as a prison. If you have a person, and they have to wear what you give them to wear, and they have to go where you tell them to go, and they have to do what you tell them to do, and they have to get up when you tell them to get up, and they have to go to sleep when you tell them to go sleep, and they have to eat when you tell them to eat, we call them a prisoner but, in fact, they are a slave. They are not free to go where they want to go, wear what they want to wear, sleep when they want to sleep and eat what they want to eat. They are a slave.
Now, the Bible had a slavery system. The problem with the American prison system is that it is more hurtful than it is good. Say a person steals my car, sells it and uses the money to buy drugs. The car is gone, the money is gone, and all we have left is the person. He has hurt me by stealing my car. Then they put the person in prison and he hurts me again with a tax bill to build and maintain the prison.
God says, "that is not the way I want my biblical society to work." Remember: responsibility, restitution and risk. In the Bible, the person who harmed me was responsible to pay me back for the harm they had caused, so, if they stole my car, they were responsible to pay me back for that. What if they could not pay me back? Then they were sold into slavery and they worked to pay it back. The slavery system allowed the victim to get restitution.
It is important at this point to read Deuteronomy 15:12-14.
Deuteronomy 15:12-14
(12) If a fellow Hebrew, a man or a woman, sells himself to you and serves you six years, in the seventh year you must let him go free.
(13) And when you release him, do not send him away empty-handed.
(14) Supply him liberally from your flock, your threshing floor and your winepress. Give to him as the LORD your God has blessed you.
Remember, this guy has been a slave for six years, so when you give him his freedom, you have to give him enough to start over; otherwise, it isn’t going to be too long and he’ll be a slave again.
Exodus 21:3 and 4
(3) If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him.
(4) If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.
This may be a little hard to take. Remember, responsibility and restitution. The master gave him a wife. Who was feeding them? Who was clothing them? Who was paying for the woman as she was raising those children and not able to work? That was all on the master’s shoulders, and now after six years he’s going to walk away with his wife and children after the master has taken on all of that? No. If he didn’t want the wife and children to be the master’s, then he should not get married during the six years. However, it doesn’t mean he won’t see them again, it just means that the wife and children would remain in the master’s household instead of his household. He could get a house down the street and see them.
Exodus 21:5 and 6
(5) “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’
(6) then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.
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Originally posted by checkbaiterThe question is not whether government is replacing god, nor whether these values are espoused by all or some evangelicals, not whether those in civil government are god-fearing or not, but why evangelicals are so vociferous in support of policy which is at odds with the principles as espoused by Christ and in the Bible.
All right then, if it is true that Evangelicals, as he claims, are supportive of his accusations, it is not a fact that all Evangelicals are this way.
Perhaps Evangelicals are wise to the fact that most or many in Civil Government are not God fearing people.
So then again, I ask, is the government replacing God? Does rehab work? Man's basic problem is e door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.
No one is questioning whether a person is responsible for their own actions, nor whether reparation should be made (personally i think its a better system than the punitive one so beloved apparently by evangelicals if the article is to be believed). You steal a car valued at say $ 20,000, you should work to repay the value. In prison this is impossible, but this is not the point. If evangelicals are so insistent in punishment rather than rehabilitation as the article states then clearly this is another instance where they are at odds with the Biblical precedent set by Moses.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIf the author is to be believed, then Evangelicals are for the most part ignorant of biblical principles.
The question is not whether government is replacing god, nor whether these values are espoused by all or some evangelicals, not whether those in civil government are god-fearing or not, but why evangelicals are so vociferous in support of policy which is at odds with the principles as espoused by Christ and in the Bible.
No one is questioning whe ...[text shortened]... learly this is another instance where they are at odds with the Biblical precedent set by Moses.
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Originally posted by checkbaiterIf the author is to be believed then evangelicals are simply content to amplify those aspects which appeal to their own world view and diminish or completely neglect those which dont. Do you think they are in a spiritual buffet?
If the author is to be believed, then Evangelicals are for the most part ignorant of biblical principles.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI stated my opinion, I think it is ignorance or deception. They cannot know anymore than they have been taught
If the author is to be believed then evangelicals are simply content to amplify those aspects which appeal to their own world view and diminish or completely neglect those which dont. Do you think they are in a spiritual buffet?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieyou dont have to go to church (which sould really be called a worship center, because the body is the church) to go to heaven. so there are some people who are called CEO's (Christmas and Easter only).
so they go to church their entire lives and have little or no idea what Jesus teaches.
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Originally posted by RBHILLOk but surely these represent the least vociferous group being the least interested?
you dont have to go to church (which sould really be called a worship center, because the body is the church) to go to heaven. so there are some people who are called CEO's (Christmas and Easter only).
Originally posted by robbie carrobieyes,
You think he needs to be a follower of Christ to make an observation?
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Originally posted by RJHindsAnd which of his laws do you keep? Should I numerate them and see what your answers are, or will you just post you JW bashing as usual to avoid having to answer?
I love Jesus, that is why I keep his commandments. Why do you deny that Jesus rose in a flesh and bone body like He said he did? Why are you an AntiChrist?
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Originally posted by RBHILLIf one looks at the history of the evangelical movement which is well documented, and notes and observes those changes and juxtaposes them with the teachings of Christ so as to draw a comparison, how is one blinded by Satan in the process? One does not need to be even a Christian, simply a historian.
yes,
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
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Originally posted by RBHILLhas satan also blinded the mind of people who follow an alternative christian faith?
yes,
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.