1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    03 Aug '15 15:453 edits
    "Will man ever live to be 200?" This Red Hot Pawn Spirituality Forum Thread is inspired by the following reply by Ghost of a Duke to General Forum Thread 162364 (Page 47)

    "A. I don't know why; why do they do that, tell me why. 😞

    Q. Will man ever live to be 200?"
    __________________________________

    All of us are given life on earth one day at a time. Yesterday's gone forever; tomorrow's not assured no matter what date you were born. This date certain is known only to the Omniscience of God. The priority one decision all of us still have the opportunity to make is where will I live for eternity. God does not impute disposables souls at the moment of physical birth because we're designed for relationship with Him in both time and eternity. “There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way'" -C.S. Lewis. Faith alone in Christ alone [and His redemptive work of substitutionary spiritual death during the final three hours of His crucifixion at Golgotha Hill which satisfied God the Father's Justice on your behalf and mine] is salvation and eternal life.

    "Yes" or "No" to His Grace Gift are the only available options. Thanks, GD.
  2. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    03 Aug '15 16:14
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby

    ...This date certain is known only to the Omniscience of God...
    Sorry to immediately digress, but on the issue of man's mortality, how do you marry Gods omniscience (all-knowingnesss) with human freewill?

    For example, if a man decides to use his freewill (a decision free from divine influence) and ignore a road sign, that results in him being killed by a bus, how would God have pre-knowledge of this event. If God's omniscience extends to knowing when we will die, do we really have freewill at all? Surely we are not truly free if it has already been pre-written?
  3. Standard memberredbadger
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    03 Aug '15 16:21
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Sorry to immediately digress, but on the issue of man's mortality, how do you marry Gods omniscience (all-knowingnesss) with human freewill?

    For example, if a man decides to use his freewill (a decision free from divine influence) and ignore a road sign, that results in him being killed by a bus, how would God have pre-knowledge of this event. If ...[text shortened]... we really have freewill at all? Surely we are not truly free if it has already been pre-written?
    FROM THE BOOK OF RIGHT ON. NOT THE BIBLE
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    03 Aug '15 16:28
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Sorry to immediately digress, but on the issue of man's mortality, how do you marry Gods omniscience (all-knowingnesss) with human freewill?

    For example, if a man decides to use his freewill (a decision free from divine influence) and ignore a road sign, that results in him being killed by a bus, how would God have pre-knowledge of this event. If ...[text shortened]... we really have freewill at all? Surely we are not truly free if it has already been pre-written?
    It is possible to know the outcome of an event, or a series of events without controlling the outcome. Knowledge of the outcome does not therefore indicate that the observer dictated the outcome.
  5. Standard memberRemoved
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    03 Aug '15 16:50
    Originally posted by divegeester
    It is possible to know the outcome of an event, or a series of events without controlling the outcome. Knowledge of the outcome does not therefore indicate that the observer dictated the outcome.
    Good answer...I also think God knowing ahead of time can intervene depending on the person. Perhaps that person prayed for protection, has great faith, there can be variables involved to change circumstances, wouldn't you agree?
    For believers, there are angels present to minister to the elect. It may not always work out, again variables which I do not completely understand.
    There is a spiritual war, invisible to us, raging all around us and sometimes there are casualties.
  6. Cape Town
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    03 Aug '15 17:13
    Originally posted by divegeester
    It is possible to know the outcome of an event, or a series of events without controlling the outcome. Knowledge of the outcome does not therefore indicate that the observer dictated the outcome.
    That is true. However, it is impossible to know the outcome of an event prior to the 'controller' doing the 'controlling'. In addition, if you know the outcome of an event, then that event is dictated, regardless of whether or not the observe is doing the dictating.
    There are however concepts of free will that are entirely compatible with both foreknowledge and dictated outcomes.
  7. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    03 Aug '15 17:13
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Sorry to immediately digress, but on the issue of man's mortality, how do you marry Gods omniscience (all-knowingnesss) with human freewill?

    For example, if a man decides to use his freewill (a decision free from divine influence) and ignore a road sign, that results in him being killed by a bus, how would God have pre-knowledge of this event. If God ...[text shortened]... do we really have freewill at all? Surely we are not truly free if it has already been pre-written?
    God knows the immediate and/or eventual outcomes of your decisions and mine but respects the unencumbered exercise of our volition.
  8. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    03 Aug '15 17:151 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    It is possible to know the outcome of an event, or a series of events without controlling the outcome. Knowledge of the outcome does not therefore indicate that the observer dictated the outcome.
    Thank you, divegeester; your statement holds true with respect to both the human and spiritual realms.
  9. Cape Town
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    03 Aug '15 17:151 edit
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Good answer...I also think God knowing ahead of time can intervene depending on the person.
    There is a bit of a contradiction there. If God changes the future, then it wasn't the future in the first place, and Gods knowledge was wrong.
    One could argue that God knows all possible futures, but then you run into the problem of him either not knowing what he himself will do (and thus which is the 'true future' ) , or he himself being bound by his own foreknowledge.
  10. Standard memberRemoved
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    03 Aug '15 18:06
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    There is a bit of a contradiction there. If God changes the future, then it wasn't the future in the first place, and Gods knowledge was wrong.
    One could argue that God knows all possible futures, but then you run into the problem of him either not knowing what he himself will do (and thus which is the 'true future' ) , or he himself being bound by his own foreknowledge.
    No contradiction for me. God knows all probable outcomes and has planned for each one.
  11. Cape Town
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    03 Aug '15 18:08
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    No contradiction for me. God knows all probable outcomes and has planned for each one.
    Except they aren't actually possible outcomes because he knows which one is the 'real outcome'. All the rest are irrelevant and not actually possible.
  12. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    03 Aug '15 18:16
    Originally posted by divegeester
    It is possible to know the outcome of an event, or a series of events without controlling the outcome. Knowledge of the outcome does not therefore indicate that the observer dictated the outcome.
    As a writer, i often start a book with a fixed ending in mind, but allow my characters to find their own way there as the chapters unfold. (It is more fun to write this way). Is that how God works? Does he know our ending, but allow us control of the chapters?
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    03 Aug '15 18:46
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]"Will man ever live to be 200?" This Red Hot Pawn Spirituality Forum Thread is inspired by the following reply by Ghost of a Duke to General Forum Thread 162364 (Page 47)

    "A. I don't know why; why do they do that, tell me why. 😞

    Q. Will man ever live to be 200?"
    __________________________________

    All of us are given life ...[text shortened]... nd eternal life.

    "Yes" or "No" to His Grace Gift are the only available options. Thanks, GD.[/b]
    Now you mis-title another attempt at fear-mongering.

    Just sayin', pal.
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    03 Aug '15 19:13
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    There is a bit of a contradiction there. If God changes the future, then it wasn't the future in the first place, and Gods knowledge was wrong.
    One could argue that God knows all possible futures, but then you run into the problem of him either not knowing what he himself will do (and thus which is the 'true future' ) , or he himself being bound by his own foreknowledge.
    Without giving this a bit more thought I cant say I disagree. But I possibly do.

    This is normally the point where Lemon Jello steps in with an extract from one of his philosophy PhD essays and boxes my ears with some theoretical existentialism.
  15. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    03 Aug '15 22:32
    Originally posted by JS357
    Now you mis-title another attempt at fear-mongering.

    Just sayin', pal.
    Originally posted by JS357
    "Now you mis-title another attempt at fear-mongering.

    Just sayin', pal."
    _____________________________

    "Q. Will man ever live to be 200?" ~Ghost of a Duke

    JS, this title is from GD not GB.
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