Witness Lee and the Lord's Recovery Movement

Divegeester says Nee produced "some [edited] good Christian books".

Christian book stores push those on individual spirituality like Sit, Walk, and Stand or The Normal Christian Life. These they like because they will help us to be spiritual Christians.

There is the blackballing of Watchman Nee's books on the church life in general. Deceived critics would say, "Oh this a latter cultic activity started by Witness Lee"

Messages given in Collected Works of Watchman Nee, The (Set 2) Vol. 22: The Assembly Life & The Prayer Ministry of the Church

Volume 22 of The Collected Works contains two books by Watchman Nee on the subject of the church. The first book, The Assembly Life, is based on a Bible study conducted by Brother Watchman Nee with the brothers in Shanghai after the Third Overcomer Conference in January 1934.

CHAPTER FOUR
THE BOUNDARY OF THE LOCAL ASSEMBLY

Tonight we will discuss the mutual relationship between the meeting in Gordon Lane and that in Wen-teh Lane. In other words, we will speak on the boundary of the local church or the extent of the border of the local church. Before we speak on this matter, there are a few things which we need to explain to the brothers from out of town. Our Bible study, at this moment, is designed especially for the local brothers. Therefore, many of the things that are covered are local in nature. However, we welcome the out-of-town brothers to come and listen.

I have mentioned three to five times already that the authority of the elders is for the local assembly. In other words, the elders are for the local assembly. Position is a matter related to the local church, and office is also a matter related to the local church. One can be an elder in Shanghai, but he cannot automatically be an elder when he goes to Nanking or Peking. A person who serves as an elder in the assembly in Shanghai cannot go to the assembly in Peking and assume the same eldership. God's gifts are for the whole church, while His offices are for the local churches. Hence, there is no such thing as a super elder who can control an out-of-town church. An elder can oversee only the church in his own locality.

THE BOUNDARY OF THE ASSEMBLY

The Bible study tonight is on the boundary of the assembly, and it is limited to the local assembly only. We hope that God will show us this truth. Because we are afraid of careless misunderstandings or forgetfulness, we will repeat once again what we have mentioned: gifts are for the whole church, while offices are for the local churches.

What is the extent of a local church? How big of an area constitutes the sphere of a local church? We would draw the brothers' and sisters' attention to the fact that in the Bible, the church is never divided into regions. The Bible never groups a few churches together under a regional organization. Although there were seven churches in Asia, we do not see the Bible appointing Ephesus or Philadelphia to rule over the other six churches. We only see seven churches, with seven lampstands. These seven lampstands represent the seven churches (Rev. 1:12, 20). In the Old Testament, one lampstand was divided into seven branches. In the New Testament, there are seven lampstands, not one lampstand with seven branches. This means that the seven different churches are shining by themselves and each one is responsible to Christ by itself. Every church is governed by Christ alone and is not under the control of any other church. In administration, every lampstand is independent and not under the control of any other lampstand. Every one of them is responsible to the Son of Man alone, who walks in the midst of the seven lampstands. They are responsible only to their High Priest. No church is responsible to another church. Although they are seven churches, they have not joined themselves to become one united church, and they are not responsible to some higher synod or convention. Each one of them is a so-called congregation, an assembly whose boundary is the locality. The Bible takes the city or the smallest administrative unit as the boundary of a local church. A local church is the basic unit of the church in the Bible. No local church is joined to another church or regards another bigger church as the central church. In other words, in God's eyes, Rome has never been appointed to be the central church. God has never acknowledged one place as the center of all churches, with that place ruling over and controlling all the other assemblies. According to God's organization, there is no center on earth. Jerusalem was not the central church at that time.

@divegeester

But the final analysis is that, as with all cults, you are not able to speak out against anything they believe. You are indeed in a church cult sonship, I’m sure of it.

You do not differentiate the right of the worker to have colleagues working in coordination with him or herself.

Paul told Timothy to charge certain WORKERS who were supposedly coordinating with Paul, not to teach different things (1 Timothy 1:3). He did not say put them out of the church. He said if they want to work along side with me as my co-partner they should not teach differently.

FURTHERMORE, Witness Lee was exceedingly tolerant allowing some to pursue their dissenting path. This longsuffering and tolerance sometimes caused considerable suffering of believers under their care.

If the SAINTS taste something unhealthy and say "We have tasted your variation and it is not as healthy as the food we had before." That is the Body expelling something unhealthy. And even there that is not excommunication. That is just one has brought upon himself some adverse reaction because what he teaches is not as HEALTHY.

You may speak something different. You may have the ears of some. But some may not give you the ear though they receive you as a brother in the Body of Christ and they have every right to remain in the local assembly unless damaging disruption calls for the local elders to ask you to stop doing that.

And none of this is "veneration". It may be rejecting what is unhealthy.

Paul about two of his co-workers he says "misaimed" and overthrew the faith of some of the dear believers.

"But avoid profane, vain babblings, for they will advance to more ungodliness.

And their word will spread like gangrene, of whom are Hymenaeus and Philetus, Who concerning the truth have misaimed, saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and overthrow the faith of some." (2 Tim. 2:16-18)

Paul did not say put them out of the local church. He did say that they were causing damage like the spreading of gangrene overthrowing the faith of some of the saints. And it was good to AVOID them and the spread of their talk.

You would say this is Paul not allowing to be in the local church if you did not agree with Paul. But there were co-laboring colleagues or men that he had appointed some responsibility. And harmony with healthy teaching as Paul taught was his requirement to be HIS co-working, co-laboring colleague.

By reading the New Testament we see a servant of God tolerating quite much dissenting. The church in Corinth criticized Paul to the point that he said he would be willing to spend all for them though they love him less.

Paul latters says that all Asia turned away from him (2 Tim. 1:15). It is not completely clear what he meant. But it probably meant that his influence in churches there or the co-workers had been damaged to the point that the whole region dissented from him. Or those in leadership offices turned away from Paul.

I thank God for the frankness of the New Testament record. We can see what happened and not be shocked when something similar happens in modern times.

FIRE SAND!!!!

@sonship said
@divegeester
Identify something wrong in the teaching according to the Bible.

Sure- here you go...

The claim by your church cult, as written on the statement of beliefs page of their website, that a belief in the trinity doctrine is a requirement for salvation.

Care to tell us if you agree with it or not?

Or you gonna pour more "sand" on the fire, smother the issue with spam-posts and hope no one noticed...?

Any Christians here disagree with this paragraph?

In order to be saved, one must have a living faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Every genuinely saved one has what the Bible calls the “common faith” (Titus 1:4), which includes what we must believe in order to be saved: we must believe that the Bible is the complete divine revelation wholly inspired by God; that there is a unique Triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit; that Jesus Christ is the Son of God incarnated to be a man; that Christ died on the cross for our sins, shedding His blood for our redemption; that on the third day He was bodily raised from the dead; that He has been exalted to the right hand of God and made the Lord of all; and that He is coming again for His own and to set up His kingdom on earth.

If you believe that you are saved and do not agree please indicate this for me.

I ask for a reply from those who believe that they are saved. I do not ask Atheists to weigh in. And I am not particularly interested in someone whose belief is so shrouded in obfuscation and uncertainty that they relish unintelligibility or secrecy in not being willing or able to pin-point where they ARE in relation to being saved.

Lol.

In order to be saved, one must have a living faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Every genuinely saved one has what the Bible calls the “common faith” (Titus 1:4), which includes what we must believe in order to be saved: we must believe that the Bible is the complete divine revelation wholly inspired by God; that there is a unique Triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit; that Jesus Christ is the Son of God incarnated to be a man; that Christ died on the cross for our sins, shedding His blood for our redemption; that on the third day He was bodily raised from the dead; that He has been exalted to the right hand of God and made the Lord of all; and that He is coming again for His own and to set up His kingdom on earth.

If no one believing they are saved here has any major problem with this statement, how about under Concerning Salvation - the part on our emphasis in leading people to Christ?

In order to be saved, one must have a living contact with Jesus Christ. Therefore, in bringing unbelievers to salvation, we emphasize prayer and calling on the name of the Lord. According to Romans 10:9 and 10, if a man is to be saved, he must believe in his heart and confess with his mouth.

@sonship said
Any Christians here disagree with this paragraph?

Perhaps "Christians here" basically ignoring you is a form of "spiritual warfare"?

If no one believing they are saved here has any major problem with this statement, how about under Concerning Salvation - the part on our emphasis in leading people to Christ?

In order to be saved, one must have a living contact with Jesus Christ. Therefore, in bringing unbelievers to salvation, we emphasize prayer and calling on the name of the Lord. According to Romans 10:9 and 10, if a man is to be saved, he must believe in his heart and confess with his mouth.

@sonship said
If no one believing they are saved here has any major problem with this statement, how about under Concerning Salvation - the part on our emphasis in leading people to Christ?

My question to you, is this:

Is it a prerequisite of salvation for a person to believe in the trinity doctrine?

@divegeester

Locate for me the phrase "trinity doctrine" in this paragraph.

In order to be saved, one must have a living faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Every genuinely saved one has what the Bible calls the “common faith” (Titus 1:4), which includes what we must believe in order to be saved: we must believe that the Bible is the complete divine revelation wholly inspired by God; that there is a unique Triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit; that Jesus Christ is the Son of God incarnated to be a man; that Christ died on the cross for our sins, shedding His blood for our redemption; that on the third day He was bodily raised from the dead; that He has been exalted to the right hand of God and made the Lord of all; and that He is coming again for His own and to set up His kingdom on earth.

@divegeester

Is it a prerequisite of salvation for a person to believe in the trinity doctrine?

In this word from Jesus which one of the "We" is God and which one is a doctrine?

"Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)

Which one of the divine We there is a doctrine ?

Or is the Father God and the Son God ?

And "lol" is not a valid answer.