Originally posted by RenarsOk .. thanks for the tip. I have difficulty just accepting their belief that they and they only are Gods chosen people and that the rest of the world are doomed.
hey Rajk999, no need to adhere to this sort of rhetorics. Yeah, I also find certain JW do's and dont's irrational or even hypocritical (can expand on that if needed) but some I'm fine with, but it's their belief, why not just respect it. Don't think this forum has been designed to have a go at people holding different views. I'm not a fan of any organised (d ...[text shortened]... h and those people are seriously deluded!
p.s. Fab, 'rhetoric' is spelt with 'h' 😉
This thread is proof that they are a deceitful bunch as well. So far it seems that all the 141 restrictions are likely to be correct and yet I was told that all Im doing is spreading lies.
Originally posted by RenarsGet used to hearing it from Rajj my friend. He's been banned from the forums before for his attacks and other things I'm not going to mention. He's a smart dude but he's got a unhealthy dose of hate that really gets the best of him...
hey Rajk999, no need to adhere to this sort of rhetorics. Yeah, I also find certain JW do's and dont's irrational or even hypocritical (can expand on that if needed) but some I'm fine with, but it's their belief, why not just respect it. Don't think this forum has been designed to have a go at people holding different views. I'm not a fan of any organised (d ...[text shortened]... h and those people are seriously deluded!
p.s. Fab, 'rhetoric' is spelt with 'h' 😉
Originally posted by Rajk999I can take your words as what the JWers think, but I'd rather hear it from the horse's mouth directly. I don't want them to say later 'Never said that'.
JWs dont answer these questions directly Fabian. THey know that their beliefs are ridiculous and stupid so they dance you around hoping to tie you up in their convoluted explanations. So let me assist here.
The JWs believe that the Jews are no longer Gods people as stated in the Bible. They misinterpret a verse by Paul to mean that the new Jews are actual ...[text shortened]... . In fact the 144,000 Jews, which are 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel are JWs .. 🙂.
The current question to robbie is: "Are the jews the people of god or not?"
And renars - If I get a penny of any misspelling I see here at RHP, I would be rich very quickly. Even if I get it from those having English as there mother tounge. (But of course you're right.)
Btw: A sentence should always start with a capital letter, like in 'Hey Rajk999, no need to ...' 🙂
Originally posted by FabianFnasi gave you the scriptural reference, you may draw your own conclusions.
That was a lengthly answer to a simple question. But it's better than nothing.
You're implication that I project my own thoughts in the question, you're wrong. What I did, was to put it in black or white in somewhat provocative wordings so you couldn't avoid the question. But you did it anyway, once, but happily not twice.
Of one of my questions, I ...[text shortened]... more, easy to answer. Don't avoid the answer, just a simple 'yes' or 'no' is enough.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieMy conclusions is that Jesus never said things like that. It's invented by later people of political reasons. The best I can say is 'Hearsay'. That's my conclusions. You know that. I know that you think that is wrong. So why bother my conclusions, they are of little interest. I want to know what you think, and your conclusions. That is why I ask you the question.
i gave you the scriptural reference, you may draw your own conclusions.
So once more I ask you, the third or the fourth time: "Are the jews the people of god, according to you?"
According to you, not according to me. Avoid the question, and I think that you don't know, won't know, or ashamed of your belief.
Originally posted by FabianFnasthen if you do not give any credence to the words that are written, why are you interested in learning about mere hearsay? what is more, why are you interested in learning my opinion about mere hearsay? you are not a gossiper are you?
My conclusions is that Jesus never said things like that. It's invented by later people of political reasons. The best I can say is 'Hearsay'. That's my conclusions. You know that. I know that you think that is wrong. So why bother my conclusions, they are of little interest. I want to know what you think, and your conclusions. That is why I ask you the q id the question, and I think that you don't know, won't know, or ashamed of your belief.
That the early Christian were completely a-political is well understood, how anyone can make the assertion that these things were written for political ends i do not know.
I have my own evaluation of these things, based on a study of scripture, of which i have no reason to be ashamed. your initial question was, are the Jews gods chosen people, i stated quite clearly that they were, but because they have rejected the messiah (the chief corner stone), the privileged of being subjects of the Kingdom was taken away from them as a whole (not as individuals, for clearly there were some who accepted the messiah), and given to another nation ( a spiritual one), if that is not clear enough, i dont know what is? i have already answered your question, why you should insist that i do it for a second and third time, i also do not know.
91.Use of bad language (curse words) is discouraged
92.Wear blue jeans, shorts, and casual clothing at the Kingdom Hall
93.Wear pants at a Kingdom Hall if you're a woman
94.Wear revealing clothes or skirts that are too short (looked down upon)
95.Wear long hair or facial hair if you're a man (depends on the local customs of the country you live in)
96.Get body piercings
97.Get tattoos
Bad language? That's an obvious one.
We always show respect to Jehovah thru our dress as well as actions. The meetings are a serious event and we dress accordingly unlike you'll see some dress when they are attending their churches.
Piercings and tattoos are condemed in tha Bible. Again we respect the gift of life that God has given us. And it would not look appropriate in the teaching work.
Lev 19:28. It is of pagan origin.
98.Read anything that is contrary to what the Watchtower teaches (This is difficult to police or enforce. However it is considered dangerous to their faith.)
99.Christian freedom is not allowed. They are not free to attend other Christian churches or interpret the Bible according to their own understanding.
100.Tell anyone when they disagree with Watchtower doctrines or the Watchtower's authority
101.Have discussions about Bible based viewpoints that contradict what the Watchtower teaches or to say anything negative about the Watchtower Society. Criticism and complaints about the organization are not allowed
102.Try to change the organization's doctrines or voice feedback on how to make their religion better. This is considered 'running ahead' of God's organization.
103.Persistently question 'the truth' (i.e. the opinions of the Governing Body)
104.Follow their conscience if it conflicts with Watchtower teachings
105.Interpret the Bible without Watchtower publications and imply 'false teachings' within the organization
106.Worship God according to personal beliefs or conscience if this conflicts with Watchtower doctrines
107.Consider other religious beliefs as valid or truthful. All other religions are thought to be false. The Watchtower has said that 'only Jehovah's Witnesses ... have any scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.' See the Watchtower Sept 1 1989
Why would one persist in reading something that would be damaging to their faith or belief? Any Witness can choose what they want to read or believe. But in the long run it will hurt them spirituality. This is no different then one from a certian country that they may love, reading propaganda that an enemy country has given them to read. We are all imperfect and to one degree or another swayed by what we take in. Not a smart thing to do under any circumstance.
Also if one has a question or a doubt about a subject about the Watchtower Society. there are many Elders available and willing to help with any subject or questions.
85.Having a family get together or party that happens to fall on a holiday can make some Jehovah's Witnesses uncomfortable. (This is a matter of conscience.)
86.Watch X rated movies or pornography
87.Do suggestive freestyle dancing at nightclubs
88.Go to a gentlemen's club
#85. Never heard of that situation.
#86 - 88. Duh!!!!!!
Originally posted by robbie carrobieMy purpous to ask you these questions is to learn, not about the text of the bible, I can read for myself, but the interpreation by the christians, in this case, a representant of the JW interpretation.
then if you do not give any credence to the words that are written, why are you interested in learning about mere hearsay? what is more, why are you interested in learning my opinion about mere hearsay? you are not a gossiper are you?
That the early Christian were completely a-political is well understood, how anyone can make the assertion that ...[text shortened]... ur question, why you should insist that i do it for a second and third time, i also do not know.
A quote from the bible doesn't say anything about your opinion in the matter. The bible is interpretable, because if it wasn't then the christians would be united in every issue, there would be no JW church, catholic church, baptists, etc, there would be one and one church only, a unified church where the bible would be taught the same whereever and whenever you enter any church. This is not the case. The bible is interpreteble. The bible doesn't say any truth by itself, it has to be interpreted. You do yours, I do mine, everyone do theirs.
So when I ask you, I'm interested in your views, none elses.
If I interpreted your answers right, you say that the jews were once the chosen people, now they are not. Can I take this as your answer? Else, correct it if it's wrong.
Let's not go off-topic by introduce other subjects to discuss. I would like to keep this line of questions to come to an end, where I have learned something important of your beliefs, and therefore also JW's beliefs, and where they differs from other churches.
Originally posted by FabianFnasthe jews were once the chosen people, now they are not
My purpous to ask you these questions is to learn, not about the text of the bible, I can read for myself, but the interpreation by the christians, in this case, a representant of the JW interpretation.
A quote from the bible doesn't say anything about your opinion in the matter. The bible is interpretable, because if it wasn't then the christians woul ...[text shortened]... our beliefs, and therefore also JW's beliefs, and where they differs from other churches.
yes you may take this as an answer, its well enough documented in scripture to be substantiated.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThank you robbie for a good answer. I presume it's the answer I can get from any JW too.
the jews were once the chosen people, now they are not
yes you may take this as an answer, its well enough documented in scripture to be substantiated.
According to your opinion, who is the chosen people today?
JW-people? Or any christian? Or doesn't god have any chosen people at all today?
Originally posted by FabianFnaswell what did Christ say?
Thank you robbie for a good answer. I presume it's the answer I can get from any JW too.
According to your opinion, who is the chosen people today?
JW-people? Or any christian? Or doesn't god have any chosen people at all today?
(Matthew 21:43) . . .This is why I say to you, The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits. . .
The Apostle Peter clearly states in this regard,
(1 Peter 2:9-10) But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies” of the one that called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. For you were once not a people, but are now God’s people; you were those who had not been shown mercy, but are now those who have been shown mercy.
now i may claim that this is Jehovahs Witnesses, Conrau may claim that it is the catholic church, Jaywill may claim that it is some protestant church, how are we to know? well it should be evident in those who are 'declaring abroad the excellencies' , of God.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut every christian agree upon that the jews are not the chosen peopel by god, but the christians are. Right? Some church, some movement, some prechars of some kind and his/her follower are more chosen by god than others. We can debate which one, but that's not giving any fruit in the debate.
well what did Christ say?
(Matthew 21:43) . . .This is why I say to you, The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits. . .
The Apostle Peter clearly states in this regard,
(1 Peter 2:9-10) But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you sho ...[text shortened]... now? well it should be evident in those who are 'declaring abroad the excellencies' , of God.
The jew's claim that they are the chosen people of god, they say, gives them the right to claim the territory of Israel, when in fact Israel and Jerusalem rightly should be claimed by christians according to the belief that only christians are the new people chosed by god, right?
Originally posted by robbie carrobie========================
well what did Christ say?
(Matthew 21:43) . . .This is why I say to you, The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits. . .
The Apostle Peter clearly states in this regard,
(1 Peter 2:9-10) But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you sho ...[text shortened]... now? well it should be evident in those who are 'declaring abroad the excellencies' , of God.
Jaywill may claim that it is some protestant church, how are we to know? well it should be evident in those who are
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If I want to write something about that I will.
Don't try to assume to write it for me.