Originally posted by galveston75Okay, thank you for these words.
No and if I do it's a mistake as I don't mean too...
The problem is this: If you seem to accept robbies bad behaviour, and you don't object to it, plus the fact that I know also you are a JW, then it's very near to think that every JW has the same low behaviour as robbie has, like a trade mark of JW.
Robbie defends JW so many times that it's easy to se him as an ambassador of JW. What robbie thinks is also what JW thinks. So what robbie is is also what JW is. By supporting his rong thoughts and ideals, and also his bad behaviour and retorics, theny you help him with his missioning. Robbies bad behaviour spills over to you and ultimately to JW and further to all christians. This is not good.
There are many cgood christians, who have preserved their own thinking, that are able to discuss things without see it as a retorical war going on when the primary goal to discuss is to win this war, banging the bible in the head of their opponent. There are many good christians who want to show their beliefs to others and at the same time respect others different beliefs. Not so with robbie. Robbie is a bad ambassador for christianity, and JW.
If you accept robbies bad behaviour, bad retorics, his hot bloodedness, and agressive discussing, then his failours is also yours.
As I've said plenty of times before: I have nothing against christians. But when loud mouth christians has everything about me, then it's very easy to think that christian people is like that, and it's easy to change my positive thinking towards the majority of christians turn sour.
Seems to me that you don't support robbie in his crusade to his personal enemies by conducting war against other-thingkers - then you have to say so! Clearly!
Originally posted by Rajk999I've got the impression of that robbie denies the existance of such a list.
Manny, this thread is about the restrictions imposed by the JW leaders on the JW followers. It has nothing to do with G75 and RC.
And if he were to accept the exostance of this list, he sees it as an attack of JW.
Instead of explain the list he starts a retorical war with personal attacks of people. That's how to behave when he's ashamed of the list, and being a member of an organisation *with* a list like this.
Originally posted by FabianFnasRight. Galveston accepts them. Robbie denies them .. seems like he is really ashamed of them, but he cant come outright and say so.
I've got the impression of that robbie denies the existance of such a list.
And if he were to accept the exostance of this list, he sees it as an attack of JW.
Instead of explain the list he starts a retorical war with personal attacks of people. That's how to behave when he's ashamed of the list, and being a member of an organisation *with* a list like this.
Many people do not understand the dispensing of God into man. God wants to in a sense pour Himself ... HIMSELF ... into man. And this dispensing of God into man is the true worship of God.
I think there is only one place in the New Testament where Jesus spoke about the proper worship of God - John chapter 4. In His conversation with the Samaritan woman Jesus spoke about the living water being installed in a thirsty person. And this living water would become a fountain springing up into eternal life. This whole matter of the fountain of living water was related to true worship. In other words to worship was to drink of this living water.
"But whoever drinks o the water that I will give him shall by no means thirst forever; but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into eternal life." (John 4:14)
Reading the surrounding context it is seen that Jesus is speaking about the true worship, the true worship of "the Father".
When the Jews worship God as the Creator, they do not have the thought of God being dispensed into them. They do not have the thought of God flowing into man, flooding man as living water. Much of Christianity also does not regard the worship of God as the drinking of the Spirit of God.
Jehovah's Witnesses have no thought of God being dispensed into the worshippers. They only know of a Great King who is coming with a kingdom on the planet. While they are not wrong about a kingdom they completely miss the drinking of the Spirit of God that God may be dispensed into man as divine life.
In John 4 the worship to the Father, the worship in the dispensing of God, is realted to drinking the living water. To contact God the Spirit with our innermost human spirit is to drink of the living wwater, and to drink of the living water is to render real worship to God.
Without drinking the living water of the Holy Spirit, we cannot have the subjective worship in the divine dispensing - that is the pouring out of God into man. The worship that Father seeks is the drinking of His Spirit. And this Spirit being installed in the drinking will become a fountain of water springing up into eternal life.
The true worship of God taking God into oneself subjectively, deeply, and inwardly. You have to open up your whole being and ask this Christ to come into your inner being. This is the true worship of the New Testament. That is allowing the Triune God to dispense Himself in Christ as the Spirit into our innermost being - drinking ... drinking .... drinking the living water of God.
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Originally posted by Rajk999i deny nothing, nor am i ashamed of anything, you and Fabian are the ones that should be ashamed! All i am interested in is how you came to your conclusions, so far, nothing, nor do i expect you to produce anything, because you dont know anything about the beliefs and practices of Jehovahs witnesses, a mindless drone who has no powers of reason, who likes to highlight how the consciences of others may differ to his own and condemn them without actually knowing the basis of their conscience based decisions. What's the word for such a person? Galvo may waste his time with you, it is his prerogative, i am done asking you to produce your reasons and until you apologise for inciting hatred, terming others 'child killers', i dont want anything to do with you. i thank Manny, Ullr, Badwater, Renar and others, who had the insight to see through the charade, for there are enough good people here to whom we may have recourse to discussion, both theists and atheists without having to entertain this type of prejudicial garbage. i knew it at the time it was a mistake to talk to you, now i really understand the reasons why.
Right. Galveston accepts them. Robbie denies them .. seems like he is really ashamed of them, but he cant come outright and say so.
Originally posted by jaywillWhen the Jews worship God as the Creator, they do not have the thought of God being dispensed into them. They do not have the thought of God flowing into man, flooding man as living water.
Many people do not understand the dispensing of God into man. God wants to in a sense pour Himself ... HIMSELF ... into man. And this dispensing of God into man is the true worship of God.
I think there is only one place in the New Testament where Jesus spoke about the proper worship of God - [b]John chapter 4. In His conversation with the Samaritan ...[text shortened]... o our innermost being - drinking ... drinking .... drinking the living water of God.[/b]
that's because its trinitarian nonsense. the trinity being unknown to them, to Christ and to Paul. It came later, as you are aware from the Greeks.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe bible says that the true people of god are the Jews. Do you deny the word of god?
When the Jews worship God as the Creator, they do not have the thought of God being dispensed into them. They do not have the thought of God flowing into man, flooding man as living water.
that's because its trinitarian nonsense. the trinity being unknown to them, to Christ and to Paul. It came later, as you are aware from the Greeks.
Originally posted by FabianFnaswhy should i talk with you Fabian, what good shall it do? you have your evaluations and i have mine, you are as uncompromising in your condemnation as i am proud of my religion. why should i talk with you?
The bible says that the true people of god are the Jews. Do you deny the word of god?
Originally posted by Rajk999I know but it always gets personal. 🙂 I do suppose that RC or G75 could take the time to cut and paste then be like of YES to this ONE or NO to that ONE but Is that going to accomplish much? I don't think either one of these guys would be considered your typical JW anyway.
Manny, this thread is about the restrictions imposed by the JW leaders on the JW followers. It has nothing to do with G75 and RC.
Manny
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Originally posted by menace71its this sort of statement that really shows how ludicrous his assertions are, can you imagine the witnesses in Malawi, or some other African state being told that you cannot join a social club, they look around their village, umm what social club can we not join? the bridge club? the chess club? the swimming club? he forgets that its a worldwide organisation, from Alaska to sub Saharan Africa and some people are simply fighting for survival. its just a nonsense Manny and not worth the time, i fully understand this now. You can take it from me, he knows nothing about either the beliefs nor of the practices of Jehovahs Witnesses.
I know but it always gets personal. 🙂 I do suppose that RC or G75 could take the time to cut and paste then be like of YES to this ONE or NO to that ONE but Is that going to accomplish much? I don't think either one of these guys would be considered your typical JW anyway.
Manny
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThough I said the Jews had not the thought of the dispensing of God into man as water, their Scriptures had the revelation. Probably then, some of the prophets and saints had a glimmer of realization.
When the Jews worship God as the Creator, they do not have the thought of God being dispensed into them. They do not have the thought of God flowing into man, flooding man as living water.
that's because its trinitarian nonsense. the trinity being unknown to them, to Christ and to Paul. It came later, as you are aware from the Greeks.
ie. - "There is a river whose streams gladden the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the Most High." (Psalm. 46:4)
I will not be arguing the Trinity with you. You have been defeated on that debate. There is no need to re-defeat you again and again on the same subject.
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Originally posted by jaywilldefeated, au contraire, it is neither implied nor substantiated, Conrau had to resort to philosophical arguments and semantics, the defining of non scriptural terms, Epi, god bless him really tried to substantiate it in scripture and like all others ended up saying that it was 'not explicitly', mentioned but inferred and you continue to perpetuate the myth because it is a doctrine of your church, that is fine, but do not try to assert that it is biblical, for it is not. There was a rather detailed analysis of the Holy Spirit i remember, which you took great pains to ignore, that again is fine, we worship what we know Jay, but you people are giving credence to a mystery, which, is of course is also your prerogative. i will not discuss it either, but we are far from defeated, for truth tends to have a potency all of its own.
Though I said the Jews had not the thought of the dispensing of God into man as water, their Scriptures had the revelation. Probably then, some of the prophets and saints had a glimmer of realization.
ie. - [b]"There is a river whose streams gladden the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the Most High." (Psalm. 46:4)
I will not ...[text shortened]... efeated on that debate. There is no need to re-defeat you again and again on the same subject.[/b]
you should worship the father Jay, as the Christ directed, worship the father in spirit and in truth.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieJust answer the questions, and you will see that either you or I will learn something.
why should i talk with you Fabian, what good shall it do? you have your evaluations and i have mine, you are as uncompromising in your condemnation as i am proud of my religion. why should i talk with you?
Be an ambassador of your religion and show the rest of this Forum how it is to be a good christian, with love, peace and understanding, instead of hate, war, and retorical tricks.
But when you treat others with hate and whines when you are adressed by 'mere evolutionists', then you will be treatad accordingly.
Be proud of what what you are, and don't feel ashamed of it. Answer the questions so you can be proud of it, rather than be defensive and feel that you personally have to defend the bad guys in Jehovas Witnesses.
Jesus didn't react to questions the way that you do. Act like Jesus, and you will be a better retoric than you presently is.
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Originally posted by FabianFnasThere are words that i could say to that Fabian, but the feuding stops now. At least with me anyway.
Just answer the questions, and you will see that either you or I will learn something.
Be an ambassador of your religion and show the rest of this Forum how it is to be a good christian, with love, peace and understanding, instead of hate, war, and retorical tricks.
But when you treat others with hate and whines when you are adressed by 'mere evolut the way that you do. Act like Jesus, and you will be a better retoric than you presently is.
You have asked whether the Jews are Gods chosen people, yes they were chosen, but they rejected the Messiah, as a whole, not all of them, but generally, Christ says of the nation of Israel with respect to this,
(Matthew 21:42-43) Jesus said to them: “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected is the one that has become the chief cornerstone. From Jehovah this has come to be, and it is marvellous in our eyes’? This is why I say to you, The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.
the question you need to answer is who or what could this 'nation', be? is it a literal nation or what?