For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2 Pet 2:20-21)
Let me translate .. If after you accept Christ you drawback, God will have no peasure in you: Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. It is better if you did not even know about Christ. Apparently the punishment those who drawback is more severe than those who dont know Christ in the first place.
For those who think they are saved eternally and can sin and do as they please because they cannot be unborn or they are Gods children, they better have another read of the bible.
1 John 5:13
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.
Now don't get me wrong I believe we flesh out what we believe and act upon what God tells us but the actually Salvation part really is in God's hands
Manny
Originally posted by Rajk999May I ask you who here has said they believe they can sin and disobey God
[i]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy comman ...[text shortened]... use they cannot be unborn or they are Gods children, they better have another read of the bible.
and still call him Lord and Savior? As near as I can tell the debate that has
ever happen with you is that you seem to be saying we have to earn God's
salvation by working for it, and we tell you that we cannot be good enough
to earn God's grace, we can only accept it and then serve Him.
Kelly
Originally posted by menace71What is your interpretation of this :
1 John 5:13
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we h ...[text shortened]... act upon what God tells us but the actually Salvation part really is in God's hands
Manny
who believe in the name of the Son ..?
Is it your opinion that it means all those who say 'I believe in Christ' with their mouth?
Notice that your passage in John are referring to believers and not those who have drawn back from Christ.
Originally posted by Rajk999No I think it's the ones who really do believe in their hearts and minds and carry out what God says and really love God and do not deny the Son 😉
What is your interpretation of this :
who believe in the name of the Son ..?
Is it your opinion that it means all those who say 'I believe in Christ' with their mouth?
Notice that your passage in John are referring to believers and not those who have drawn back from Christ.
Manny
Originally posted by KellyJayYou have totally missed the point KJ. Many here believe in eternal salvation ie born again Christians if they sin will still get salvation.
May I ask you who here has said they believe they can sin and disobey God
and still call him Lord and Savior? As near as I can tell the debate that has
ever happen with you is that you seem to be saying we have to earn God's
salvation by working for it, and we tell you that we cannot be good enough
to earn God's grace, we can only accept it and then serve Him.
Kelly
Im not discussing anything about earning salvation. Im ignoring anything that is off topic.
Do you have anything to say about what the Apostle Peter said in the opening post in relation to the claim that a born again Christian cannot lose his salvation.
Is Peter saying that he can, or not?
Originally posted by menace71So if a man claims to be born again and he draws back then he can go into perdition and lose his salvation according to Paul?
No I think it's the ones who really do believe in their hearts and minds and carry out what God says and really love God and do not deny the Son 😉
Manny
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
(Heb 10:38-39)
Originally posted by menace71Who asked you that Manny ? Please stay on the topic. The bible is saying clearly that there are people who will accept Christ and then drawback. They will lose their salvation.
I don't think we can earn or pay for our salvation however.............
Manny
Do you agree with the Bible?
Originally posted by Rajk999How does this "salvation" you speak of work? Is their a limit to the number of times a person can be saved, unsaved and saved again?
[i]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy comman ...[text shortened]... use they cannot be unborn or they are Gods children, they better have another read of the bible.
Originally posted by VelnsI don't know the answer to that but it is obvious what the Apostle Peter and Paul in Hebrews are both saying; and that is that those who drawback after they have accepted Christ WILL lose their salvation.
How does this "salvation" you speak of work? Is their a limit to the number of times a person can be saved, unsaved and saved again?
Originally posted by Rajk999Certainly it is obvious to yourself and something you feel strongly about. If you are correct, can a person regain that salvation?
I don't know the answer to that but it is obvious what the Apostle Peter and Paul in Hebrews are both saying; and that is that those who drawback after they have accepted Christ WILL lose their salvation.
Originally posted by VelnsIs it not obvious to you as well. Did you read the reference in Peter?
Certainly it is obvious to yourself and something you feel strongly about. If you are correct, can a person regain that salvation?
I feel strongly about corrupt preachers and teachers telling the poor innocent illiterate masses that they all they have to do is to accept Christ with their mouth and they will get salvation and they cannot lose it despite their sins. The Bible teaches no such thing.
I cannot tell who can or cannot regain salvation once lost. There are many cases in the Bible of repenters who did not gain repentance or forgiveness from God.