1. Standard memberRajk999
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    10 Aug '13 23:002 edits
    For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2 Pet 2:20-21)

    Let me translate .. If after you accept Christ you drawback, God will have no peasure in you: Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. It is better if you did not even know about Christ. Apparently the punishment those who drawback is more severe than those who dont know Christ in the first place.

    For those who think they are saved eternally and can sin and do as they please because they cannot be unborn or they are Gods children, they better have another read of the bible.
  2. Standard membermenace71
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    10 Aug '13 23:501 edit
    1 John 5:13

    13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.

    Now don't get me wrong I believe we flesh out what we believe and act upon what God tells us but the actually Salvation part really is in God's hands

    Manny
  3. Standard memberKellyJay
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    10 Aug '13 23:59
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    [i]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy comman ...[text shortened]... use they cannot be unborn or they are Gods children, they better have another read of the bible.
    May I ask you who here has said they believe they can sin and disobey God
    and still call him Lord and Savior? As near as I can tell the debate that has
    ever happen with you is that you seem to be saying we have to earn God's
    salvation by working for it, and we tell you that we cannot be good enough
    to earn God's grace, we can only accept it and then serve Him.
    Kelly
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    11 Aug '13 00:04
    Originally posted by menace71
    1 John 5:13

    13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we h ...[text shortened]... act upon what God tells us but the actually Salvation part really is in God's hands

    Manny
    What is your interpretation of this :
    who believe in the name of the Son ..?

    Is it your opinion that it means all those who say 'I believe in Christ' with their mouth?

    Notice that your passage in John are referring to believers and not those who have drawn back from Christ.
  5. Standard membermenace71
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    11 Aug '13 00:10
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    What is your interpretation of this :
    who believe in the name of the Son ..?

    Is it your opinion that it means all those who say 'I believe in Christ' with their mouth?

    Notice that your passage in John are referring to believers and not those who have drawn back from Christ.
    No I think it's the ones who really do believe in their hearts and minds and carry out what God says and really love God and do not deny the Son 😉


    Manny
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    11 Aug '13 00:12
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    May I ask you who here has said they believe they can sin and disobey God
    and still call him Lord and Savior? As near as I can tell the debate that has
    ever happen with you is that you seem to be saying we have to earn God's
    salvation by working for it, and we tell you that we cannot be good enough
    to earn God's grace, we can only accept it and then serve Him.
    Kelly
    You have totally missed the point KJ. Many here believe in eternal salvation ie born again Christians if they sin will still get salvation.

    Im not discussing anything about earning salvation. Im ignoring anything that is off topic.

    Do you have anything to say about what the Apostle Peter said in the opening post in relation to the claim that a born again Christian cannot lose his salvation.

    Is Peter saying that he can, or not?
  7. Standard membermenace71
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    11 Aug '13 00:13
    I don't think we can earn or pay for our salvation however.............

    Manny
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    11 Aug '13 00:16
    Originally posted by menace71
    No I think it's the ones who really do believe in their hearts and minds and carry out what God says and really love God and do not deny the Son 😉


    Manny
    So if a man claims to be born again and he draws back then he can go into perdition and lose his salvation according to Paul?

    Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
    (Heb 10:38-39)
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    11 Aug '13 00:161 edit
    Originally posted by menace71
    I don't think we can earn or pay for our salvation however.............

    Manny
    Who asked you that Manny ? Please stay on the topic. The bible is saying clearly that there are people who will accept Christ and then drawback. They will lose their salvation.

    Do you agree with the Bible?
  10. Standard membermenace71
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    11 Aug '13 00:26
    Sorry ok yes I believe that many people hear the Gospel and like the parables that Jesus said some will fall away


    Manny
  11. Standard memberRajk999
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    11 Aug '13 00:41
    Originally posted by menace71
    Sorry ok yes I believe that many people hear the Gospel and like the parables that Jesus said some will fall away


    Manny
    Fall away and lose their salvation?
  12. Standard memberVelns
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    11 Aug '13 02:15
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    [i]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy comman ...[text shortened]... use they cannot be unborn or they are Gods children, they better have another read of the bible.
    How does this "salvation" you speak of work? Is their a limit to the number of times a person can be saved, unsaved and saved again?
  13. Standard memberRajk999
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    11 Aug '13 02:21
    Originally posted by Velns
    How does this "salvation" you speak of work? Is their a limit to the number of times a person can be saved, unsaved and saved again?
    I don't know the answer to that but it is obvious what the Apostle Peter and Paul in Hebrews are both saying; and that is that those who drawback after they have accepted Christ WILL lose their salvation.
  14. Standard memberVelns
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    11 Aug '13 02:27
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I don't know the answer to that but it is obvious what the Apostle Peter and Paul in Hebrews are both saying; and that is that those who drawback after they have accepted Christ WILL lose their salvation.
    Certainly it is obvious to yourself and something you feel strongly about. If you are correct, can a person regain that salvation?
  15. Standard memberRajk999
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    11 Aug '13 02:36
    Originally posted by Velns
    Certainly it is obvious to yourself and something you feel strongly about. If you are correct, can a person regain that salvation?
    Is it not obvious to you as well. Did you read the reference in Peter?

    I feel strongly about corrupt preachers and teachers telling the poor innocent illiterate masses that they all they have to do is to accept Christ with their mouth and they will get salvation and they cannot lose it despite their sins. The Bible teaches no such thing.

    I cannot tell who can or cannot regain salvation once lost. There are many cases in the Bible of repenters who did not gain repentance or forgiveness from God.
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