Young Earthers (RJ) Look at this: Grand Canyon:

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you cannot refrain from being insulting we are done.
You do NOT know what the universe looked liked when it started.
You do NOT know what it took to have everything begin.
You assume a great deal about all of your beliefs, if you believe you do know how
it began and where everything came from please enlighten me I'll read your post.
Beyond you putti ...[text shortened]... mit your views about the start of this universe are all based upon
some man made story.
Kelly

heh, me calling you ignorant is not an insult. it is the truth. a truth you admitted to numerous times again.

you simply cannot comprehend how it is all right that your stance is based on nothing but a book that calmly advocates genocide but my stance based on proof and the best understanding science has to offer in this time is wrong is "based on a man made story"


and no, i do not think i will "enlighten" you. no matter how hard i try. you have to be willing.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
heh, me calling you ignorant is not an insult. it is the truth. a truth you admitted to numerous times again.

you simply cannot comprehend how it is all right that your stance is based on nothing but a book that calmly advocates genocide but my stance based on proof and the best understanding science has to offer in this time is wrong is "based on a man ...[text shortened]... no, i do not think i will "enlighten" you. no matter how hard i try. you have to be willing.

I don't think you can "enlighten" anyone because there is no "light" in you. 😏

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
heh, me calling you ignorant is not an insult. it is the truth. a truth you admitted to numerous times again.

you simply cannot comprehend how it is all right that your stance is based on nothing but a book that calmly advocates genocide but my stance based on proof and the best understanding science has to offer in this time is wrong is "based on a man ...[text shortened]... no, i do not think i will "enlighten" you. no matter how hard i try. you have to be willing.

Did you see me bring up a book in my argument?
No, you didn't.
My argument is that you assume to much, you believe your argument is so sound
that if anyone dares to disagree with you they should be belittled.
You simply don't know what it was that started it all, you have no idea how or
why it all began, you have not clue what it took to maintain it and so on, yet you
believe you can look back in time and tell others.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Did you see me bring up a book in my argument?
No, you didn't.
My argument is that you assume to much, you believe your argument is so sound
that if anyone dares to disagree with you they should be belittled.
You simply don't know what it was that started it all, you have no idea how or
why it all began, you have not clue what it took to maintain it and so on, yet you
believe you can look back in time and tell others.
Kelly

at least you seem to be wanting a conversation unlike some.

ok, i will bite. first off: if the good book is not in question here, then you have nothing. every bit of creationism "science" is based on the book or on fabrications made to fit the book. i don't see any atheist or hindu or buddhist scientists make erroneous claims that happen to fit the bible.


secondly: i don't need to know how you got your faith, and how you maintain it. it is irrelevant to the discussion. faith is a wonderful thing, i have it. the christian faith to be exact. yet when it comes to irrefutable facts it is insane those that chose to ignore it.


here lies the main problem: the character of jesus, the concept of Him, it is a wonderful thing. a character that professes nothing but love, it is almost enough to make you want to be a better person. a discovery that would contradict his existence or his awesomeness would almost be unbearable to accept. you might even go so far as to willingly ignore it just so you could hold on to the fiction that makes you happy. so here is the kicker: nothing in science contradicts the message of jesus, nothing shatters the possibility that he existed. the fact that it took so long to make the earth doesn't diminish the awesome that is god or this creation of his.

so the question remains, why are you so set on ignoring evidence that does not disprove god but disprove a heinous mass genocide that he once supposedly did? why do you believe that the god off love that sent his son to say "love your enemy" was capable a mere two thousand years before to chose a small tribe of people out of all the other humans in the world and told them to go into canaan and kill everything there?

my answer to that is that you are told to. that a dumbass priest or preacher or whatever considers mass genocide as a crucial part of the god of love. and that you are a slave and you follow.
another possibility is that you are a psychopath. and i hope you are not. you don't seem to be.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
at least you seem to be wanting a conversation unlike some.

ok, i will bite. first off: if the good book is not in question here, then you have nothing. every bit of creationism "science" is based on the book or on fabrications made to fit the book. i don't see any atheist or hindu or buddhist scientists make erroneous claims that happen to fit the bibl ...[text shortened]... possibility is that you are a psychopath. and i hope you are not. you don't seem to be.

If you really held the Christian faith then you would believe what is recorded in the Holy Bible about Christ and the creation of the heavens and the earth. However, you prefer to believe men rather that God and think you are wise in doing so. Instead of showing yourself to be wise, you show yourself to be a fool.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
at least you seem to be wanting a conversation unlike some.

ok, i will bite. first off: if the good book is not in question here, then you have nothing. every bit of creationism "science" is based on the book or on fabrications made to fit the book. i don't see any atheist or hindu or buddhist scientists make erroneous claims that happen to fit the bibl ...[text shortened]... possibility is that you are a psychopath. and i hope you are not. you don't seem to be.

Well I'll ask you this, were you there in person to know why God did whay he did? Have you talked to God about this and spoke your mind?
Has some new revelation come from God that it is ok to question why he does things?
And finally do you even in the slightest understand why he did this?

Originally posted by galveston75
Well I'll ask you this, were you there in person to know why God did whay he did? Have you talked to God about this and spoke your mind?
Has some new revelation come from God that it is ok to question why he does things?
And finally do you even in the slightest understand why he did this?

One might pose as an equally valid question whether you were there in person to see that the scripture collected in the bible was written under the inspiration of god rather than, for example, the intention to simply influence and control the biddable.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
One might pose as an equally valid question whether you were there in person to see that the scripture collected in the bible was written under the inspiration of god rather than, for example, the intention to simply influence and control the biddable.

No I was not there. I've never said I know in all detail why God has done what he's done in the past. There are millions of things he has done that we will never know.
So my point is why anyone on earth can condemn or question why some action that God has made in the past or the future is wrong or cruel or whatever comes out of their brain?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Come on, you are talking to creationists here. These are people who disregard all of geology and astronomy and most of biology and physics. All they need to do to counter you is say that there was another local flood prior to the big one, or that you are 'interpreting the data all wrong and making too many assumptions'. After all, you cannot back up your ...[text shortened]... thousand years, then fitting another flood and a few more layers in will be no problem at all.

Creationists understand--logically--that any Deity powerful enough to create an entire universe wouldn't and couldn't possibly be bound by any scientific laws. The fact is this: if there is a Creator, all your scientific stuff means absolutely nothing. If there isn't a Creator, then all your scientific stuff is worthy, scientifically, but unnecessary in proving anything as far as a Creator goes.

Scientific stuff like this is certainly interesting, and meaningful. But it has absolutely zero bearing on whethre or not a Creator exists. Period.

This reminds me of the argument that there couldn't possibly be enough water to flood the Earth, therefore the flood could never have occurred. That's all great, but, do you think a Deity powerful enough to create the entire universe from scratch, could possibly have His wishes go unfulfilled because He ran out of water?

According to the bible, therefore according to bible believers, MIRACLES DO HAPPEN. Miracles trump any scientific findings. No, I'm not saying "therefore, miracles are a fact, and science is bogus." I'm just saying to the skeptics.. you have to accept the view of the people you are trying to convince.

We believe, yes, the bush burned without being consumed, the donkey talked, and Jesus was resurrected from the dead. Since you don't and won't believe those things are possible, we are at a permanent impasse. So if you really want to crush our faith, you'll have to do a lot better than a secret, hidden Grand Canyon thread.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
at least you seem to be wanting a conversation unlike some.

ok, i will bite. first off: if the good book is not in question here, then you have nothing. every bit of creationism "science" is based on the book or on fabrications made to fit the book. i don't see any atheist or hindu or buddhist scientists make erroneous claims that happen to fit the bibl possibility is that you are a psychopath. and i hope you are not. you don't seem to be.

What have I offered you as far as creationism science?
My points have centered on some of the key areas of our general lack of
knowledge about key data points, which remain the same.
1. We do not know.
a. What was required for everything to come into existence?
b. What did it look like when it came into existence?

2. I’ve not asked you to fit anything into what fits scripture, I’ve not made claims
that go against any fact. So why are you bringing this up with me? You have no
irrefutable facts that I’m ignoring, I ignore your interpretation of some facts we do
see around us which is not the same thing.

3. Okay, why have you NOT me brought Jesus into this discussion? There are a lot
of things that go directly against the creation story and Jesus Christ, but none of
those things I’d bring up in this discussion, because they have no place with those
I’m talking too. Many of the people I’m talking to here don’t believe that Jesus
Christ is the Son of God so how the Genesis story and their beliefs fit together
are meaningless only with another believer would I bring up those things. Besides
that my disagreements would still be mine regardless of those points, where I
disagree with people is where they assume their assumptions are more factual
than beliefs and they seem to have this herd mentality that they must agree
with the masses.

4. What evidence do you think I’ve ignored? I’m not talking about proving God here
I’ve been very clear about my points in this discussion. I’m of the opinion I cannot
prove God is real, no one but God can do that. So I don’t bother trying, God can do
whatever He wants to make Himself known to each of us.

5. I suggest you stop dragging in things that do not apply to me, I don’t have a
priest, Nor have I ever had a preacher in my whole life preach the crap you
brought up. Stick with reality And do me a favor stick with those things I say and
stop throwing things in my face that have Nothing to do with me as if they did!
Kelly

Originally posted by galveston75
No I was not there. I've never said I know in all detail why God has done what he's done in the past. There are millions of things he has done that we will never know.
So my point is why anyone on earth can condemn or question why some action that God has made in the past or the future is wrong or cruel or whatever comes out of their brain?

Nobody is condemning or questioning actions made by god, or even whether or not god exists.

Originally posted by googlefudge
With every post you provide more evidence for the damage irrational religious thinking
can and does do to people.

The sheer irrationality and stupidity of your posts never ceases to amaze me.


You're entire argument is based on the argument from ignorance fallacy.


Even if you were right (which you are most emphatically not) that we knew (an ...[text shortened]... s been more successful...

And how stupid it would/will look to claim otherwise.

Oh please try to follow along will you!
I've made the claims that we do not know how it began, we don't know how it
started, why it started, what it took to make it start....those have been my claims.
I have NOT said because these things are true you must believe in my God or
any other God. I'm simply stating what is true nothing more, whatever stance you
are going to take on this topic you have no choice but to do it in FAITH. You may
claim you believe because X,Y, and, Z but that still means your looking at things
and assuming they mean what you claim or thing they do.

Calling me irrational and stupid...doesn't shock me...its about all you got.

Your blind faith in the opinions of man is as powerful than any I've seen on any
other topic, you can call it science or not it is still human opinion when you bottom
line it. Just like water will not rise above it source science will never go beyond
the people who work it.
Kelly

Originally posted by galveston75
Well I'll ask you this, were you there in person to know why God did whay he did? Have you talked to God about this and spoke your mind?
Has some new revelation come from God that it is ok to question why he does things?
And finally do you even in the slightest understand why he did this?

i should get used to these kind of debating practices, but they are so idiotic that they still bother me.

you just skipped over the proving god is a genocidal maniac and supposed it has been proved already, that is why you ask me what reason could there be behind genocide. as if there can ever be a reason.


no, i wasn't "there" when god didn't do the flood. i just have 2 contradicting stories and i choose to believe the one that is more pleasant. by 2 stories i am refering to the mass genocide of noah's flood and god loving the world so much he sent his only son to teach us love and compassion. these stories contradict each other. only a psychopath could believe they can both be true.

so yes, i would rather have a loving god than a psychotic god that treats the world, the one he created, as an etch a sketch he can shake into oblivion any time he feels like it.

Originally posted by KellyJay
What have I offered you as far as creationism science?
My points have centered on some of the key areas of our general lack of
knowledge about key data points, which remain the same.
1. We do not know.
a. What was required for everything to come into existence?
b. What did it look like when it came into existence?

2. I’ve not asked you to fit anythi ...[text shortened]... say and
stop throwing things in my face that have Nothing to do with me as if they did!
Kelly

oh, if you don't base your position on the bible, then you really have nothing. you are completely irrational.

glad you sorted it out.




PS: i don't really believe that. i believe you are lying and not insane. somebody at some point told you God is going to get pissed with you if you don't believe what that somebody is telling you. and you have been willingly ignorant ever since.