06 Jun 17
Originally posted by leunammiI looked at it, and don't have a clear grasp of its meaning, what do you think it is saying?
I was doing a little research on the second death, and come across this exposition on the subject matter. Read it if you like, pass it by if you must. But please don't bother me with the cut and paste commentary, I only posted this for those that maybe interested. Sonship, KJ, josephw, Suzianne, I would be interested in your comments.
Does the article ...[text shortened]... f the second death?
http://concordant.org/expositions/unveiling-jesus-christ/47-second-death/
06 Jun 17
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayMy impression, the second death is all consuing and permanant/forever. I dont believe that hell, second death, etc. is eternal torment if torment is defined as ongoing.
I looked at it, and don't have a clear grasp of its meaning, what do you think it is saying?
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06 Jun 17
3 edits
Originally posted by leunammi
My impression, the second death is all consuing and permanant/forever. I dont believe that hell, second death, etc. is eternal torment if torment is defined as ongoing.
I think we spent too much time talking about hell and punishment as it relates to sins and not enough about Gods goodness and love.
This is a dilemma not easy to solve.
Consider the pages of the New Testament. Chapters are written without that much attention to the subject. Though when mentioned, it is mentioned definitely.
G.H. Lang writes
"We ought to deplore the flights of imagination and unrestrained rhetoric with which the solemn warnings of eternal punishment have been too often exaggerated and disfigured... Such language does not befit the awfulness of the prospect. The metaphors of Scripture are suficiently solemn and, produce all the effect desired, without human amplification."
[ The Last Assize , G.H. Lang, Conley & Schoettle Publishers, pg.9 ]
Critics and believers both can fall into attempting to use imagination to amplify their particular issues. It doesn't help and tends to exalt something like Dante's Divine Comedy to be more important than the concise, succinct, and sufficient clarity of the pure Scriptures.
06 Jun 17
1 edit
Originally posted by leunammiWell if you can make that point using scripture not feelings or opinions I would love it. Right now I see nothing but that as I read the text.
My impression, the second death is all consuing and permanant/forever. I dont believe that hell, second death, etc. is eternal torment if torment is defined as ongoing.
06 Jun 17
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayYou need scripture to tell you that death and torment are two different things?
Well if you can make that point using scripture not feelings or opinions I would love it. Right now I see nothing but that as I read the text.
Any dictionary will give you that definition.
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07 Jun 17
Originally posted by KellyJayDo you believe that everything in the bible is literal? What about Daniels dreams? What about Revelation, is that all literal? If not which parts are literal and which parts not, and how do you decide which is which?
Well if you can make that point using scripture not feelings or opinions I would love it. Right now I see nothing but that as I read the text.
Originally posted by divegeesterI was not asking for myself. leunammi has not been here "for years".
I've posted my beliefs on this topic consistently and coherently for years.
Are you pretending you don't know what my views on it are?
He asked you a direct question, and yet you dodge and complain that he won't answer you, when, in fact, he did answer. He said, "As I stated previously, I think I have answered some of your question already, and I think I will leave it at that, nothing else needs to be said as far as I am concerned." So why do you continue to pressure him about it? Is it because you do not want to answer his questions? Hypocritical, I'd say.
Why don't you just answer his question, instead of being an insufferable bitch about it?
07 Jun 17
Originally posted by leunammiThis commentary seems more verbose than I am used to, but it seems to present the "second death" as annihilation, versus "eternal torment". This is my position as well.
I was doing a little research on the second death, and come across this exposition on the subject matter. Read it if you like, pass it by if you must. But please don't bother me with the cut and paste commentary, I only posted this for those that maybe interested. Sonship, KJ, josephw, Suzianne, I would be interested in your comments.
Does the article ...[text shortened]... f the second death?
http://concordant.org/expositions/unveiling-jesus-christ/47-second-death/
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Originally posted by divegeester
Are you insinuating here that your critics on this hell topic, (such as myself), are unbelievers?
Are you insinuating here that your critics on this hell topic, (such as myself), are unbelievers?
Not necessarily at all.
Nice try though.
Another interesting quotation from G.H. Lang that I think I would concur with some review. Its been a while since I studied this.
I. My essential and vital conclusion remains as in those earlier years. I see no fair escape from the belief that for the impenitent Christ-rejector there awaits endless conscious experience of the wrath of God. But I see now
(a) No teaching in Scriptures that the destiny of all men is fixed at death.
(b) No authority in Scripture to assert that the unevangelized - and they are the vast majority of our human race - will necessarily and inevitably be lost for ever.
[ The Last Assize, G.H. Lang, Conley & Schoettle, pg. 9 ]