Originally posted by FMFSo if you agree that no one's perception of morality is more accurate than someone else's why do you pretend than your view is any better than the one portrayed in the Bible?
I don't pretend anything. I simply have my own moral code and I try to live according to it and seek to understand and comply with the moral code and laws where I live. I am not pretending anything when I observe that different cultures have different perceptions and approaches to morality and that there have been variations down through history. It is you who i ...[text shortened]... st pretending that it is, is neither here nor there. I don't see how I am "pretending" anything.
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Originally posted by FetchmyjunkIf you are telling me something true and important that I genuinely feel pertains to the reality in which I live, I will realize that it's true and it will then alter my beliefs. The key to this is that you have effectively talked about me being at "fault" for not believing the same things as you do. And yet I cannot decide to believe in things that are not persuasive, convincing, plausible and coherent. Even with some Christians threatening that their God figure will torture non-believers [like me] as a revenge for our lack of belief, I will not be able to avoid the torture and live forever by simply "deciding" to believe stuff that is just ludicrous and nonsensical like what you have been offering these last few weeks.
So you are not the one that decides what is persuasive, convincing, plausible and coherent?
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Originally posted by FMFYou incorrectly assume that when you hear the truth you will automatically find it convincing. It that were true no one would ever believe a lie. And everyone would believe the truth.
If you are telling me something true and important that I genuinely feel pertains to the reality in which I live, I will realize that it's true and it will then alter my beliefs. The key to this is that you have effectively talked about me being at "fault" for not believing the same things as you do. And yet I cannot decide to believe in things that are not pers ...[text shortened]... ff that is just ludicrous and nonsensical like what you have been offering these last few weeks.
You are the one that decides whether something is true or not. Not everyone accepts the truth. People reject the truth all the time.
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Originally posted by FetchmyjunkWell the stuff you've told me about being angry with one's brother is equally evil as murdering millions of people is sheer nonsense, and the stuff you've told me about "perfect justice" is the same punishment for all wrong doing unless one thinks one is "forgiven" in which case one is "forgiven" or the person murdering millions of people might get "undeserved mercy", and that's "perfect justice" too, well, that's sheer nonsense too. I'm not pretending to think so. I don't see the weird things you believe as being in any meaningful competition with what I believe.
So if you agree that no one's perception of morality is more accurate than someone else's why do you pretend than your view is any better than the one portrayed in the Bible?
The reason I chat with you is because you come out with ludicrous things and I am fascinated by the impact that religiosity can have on someone's intellect. Aside from that, and in so far as how I live my life and raise my children and interact with 'real' people in 'real life' away from here, your insistence that your "perception of morality is more accurate" than mine etc. etc. etc. ~ ad nauseam ~ is irrelevant and laughable.
If you don't think my "perception of morality is more accurate" than yours, I really couldn't care less. The only "accurate" idea about morality that you have given me - or reminded me of - is that there are some really strange ideas out there, and not many stranger than those emanating from people who believe in supernatural beings with whom they believe they have communicated.
Originally posted by FMFWhen you are saying one persons moral beliefs are 'sheer nonsense' you are implying that your moral beliefs are more correct or better and that is only possible with a universal moral standard which you don't believe exists. So you are being incoherent.
Well the stuff you've told me about being angry with one's brother is equally evil as murdering millions of people is sheer nonsense, and the stuff you've told me about "perfect justice" is the same punishment for all wrong doing unless one thinks one is "forgiven" in which case one is "forgiven" or the person murdering millions of people might get "undeserved m ...[text shortened]... ng from people who believe in supernatural beings with whom they believe they have communicated.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkDo I believe what you claim is "true" for you is also "true" for me? You mean in the realm of supernatural matters, immortality, "sin", metaphysical ideology, demons, angels, miracles? No. Of course not. Is there some reason why I should?
Do you believe what is 'true' for me is not 'true' for you?
Originally posted by FMFNo that's not what I asked. Do you believe that all truth is relative or is truth universal?
Do I believe what you claim is "true" for you is also "true" for me? You mean in the realm of supernatural matters, immortality, "sin", metaphysical ideology, demons, angels, miracles? No. Of course not. Is there some reason why I should?
Originally posted by FMFDo you believe we all share the same reality?
If you are telling me something true and important that I genuinely feel pertains to the reality in which I live, I will realize that it's true and it will then alter my beliefs. The key to this is that you have effectively talked about me being at "fault" for not believing the same things as you do. And yet I cannot decide to believe in things that are not pers ...[text shortened]... ff that is just ludicrous and nonsensical like what you have been offering these last few weeks.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkWhen I claim that your personal moral beliefs, in so far as you have described them, are sheer nonsense, I do so without asserting that there is a "universal moral standard" and don't accept that I have to subscribe to the idea that there is such a thing.
When you are saying one persons moral beliefs are 'sheer nonsense' you are implying that your moral beliefs are more correct or better and that is only possible with a universal moral standard which you don't believe exists. So you are being incoherent.
You are unable to differentiate between the degree of "evil" exhibited by someone who is prideful - or angry with a relative - or has lusty thoughts - on one hand, and the degree of "evil" exhibited by someone who murders millions and millions of people in purpose-built extermination camps, on the other. You also contend that, being guilty of exactly the same degree of evil", both the proud guy and the mass murderer deserve exactly the same punishment.
This, to me is sheer nonsense, and I don't see why it requires some hypothetical supernatural-powered "universal moral standard" (a.k.a. your moral standard) for me to say so. If you truly, honestly, sincerely believe what you say you believe about "evil" and "morality" and "fairness" and "justice", then I am glad to hear you find my views incoherent. It would be disturbing if it were not the case.