Originally posted by @thinkofonePosting for your edification, amigo
You don't really care what Jesus actually said or didn't say. You don't see what is there and you see what is not there. Read through the words of Jesus I cited again.
"While seeing [you] do not see, and while hearing [you] do not hear, nor do [you] understand."
How can you abide in His word if while seeing you do not see, and while hearing you do ...[text shortened]... if while seeing you do not see, and while hearing you do not hear, while you do not understand?
“Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
(John 14:1-6)
The first and sixth verses are particularly interesting. Did Jesus say in the sixth verse that no man cometh unto the Father but by good works?
Let’s continue with Jesus’ words in John 14:
“If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.“
(John 14:7-12)
How many times must Jesus Christ say to believe in Him and on Him before it sinks in?
Originally posted by @romans1009People are trying to tell you that 'believe in him' does not mean to say with your mouth that you believe that Jesus esisted or that he is the Son of God. That is called mouth worship or lip service and it is condemned by Christ.
..How many times must Jesus Christ say to believe in Him and on Him before it sinks in?
Believe in Christ means to believe in his teachings and to do his commandments.
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Originally posted by @rajk999Even with a really simple construct, Romans1009 cannot see, hear nor understand what Jesus is saying:
People are trying to tell you that 'believe in him' does not mean to say with your mouth that you believe that Jesus esisted or that he is the Son of God. That is called mouth worship or lip service and it is condemned by Christ.
Believe in Christ means to believe in his teachings and to do his commandments.
John 8
"34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
" 31 ...If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
Clearly Jesus says that His true disciples are made free from committing sin. By His definition those who continue to commit sin remain slaves and are not free: "Everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin".
Yet Romans1009 says things like, "Everyone sins and will continue to sin ...". In which case they are not true disciples, do not know the truth and are not free. They remain slaves.
It's such a simple construct, yet Romans1009's slavery to his beliefs render him blind and deaf to the words Jesus is speaking. Romans1009 cannot see, hear nor understand what Jesus is saying.
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Originally posted by @rajk999That "believe in" Him equates to believing in "His commandment", "the things [He] speak[s], "[His] sayings", "the word[s] [He] spoke" cannot be laid out much more straightforwardly than the following:
People are trying to tell you that 'believe in him' does not mean to say with your mouth that you believe that Jesus esisted or that he is the Son of God. That is called mouth worship or lip service and it is condemned by Christ.
Believe in Christ means to believe in his teachings and to do his commandments.
John 12
46 “I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.
50 “I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”
48 “He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear".
Originally posted by @thinkofoneClearly disciples of Christ do not speak that way.
Even with a really simple construct, he cannot see, hear nor understand what Jesus is saying:
[quote]John 8
"34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
" 31 ...If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” [/quo ...[text shortened]... d deaf to the words Jesus is speaking. He cannot see, hear nor understand what Jesus is saying.
Originally posted by @rajk999If you have been reading what I have been writing, you would know I have spoken of belief in one’s heart and not in one’s head. The “heart belief” referred to in Romans 10:9 represents a strong, sincere, committed, abiding and self-sacrificial belief. This is how one is saved and it is not “mouth worship” in any sense of the words.
People are trying to tell you that 'believe in him' does not mean to say with your mouth that you believe that Jesus esisted or that he is the Son of God. That is called mouth worship or lip service and it is condemned by Christ.
Believe in Christ means to believe in his teachings and to do his commandments.
Originally posted by @thinkofoneI’m afraid you just don’t understand. If you think you are living a sin-free life, you are only fooling yourself. If you think anyone but Jesus Christ has or can lead a sin-free life, you, again, are fooling yourself.
Even with a really simple construct, Romans1009 cannot see, hear nor understand what Jesus is saying:
[quote]John 8
"34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
" 31 ...If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free. ...[text shortened]... o the words Jesus is speaking. Romans1009 cannot see, hear nor understand what Jesus is saying.
What was Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross for if we can lead a sin-free life by doing good works and by our own initiative and will power?
If you would open your heart and mind to what Jesus Christ is saying, instead of focusing on yourself and the “good works” that puff you up with misplaced pride, you would understand that salvation is a gift from God - not something to be earned.
Yes, good works are important, but they are not a requirement to be saved. They are evidence of someone who already is saved.
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Originally posted by @romans1009If you think anyone but Jesus Christ has or can lead a sin-free life, you, again, are fooling yourself.
I’m afraid you just don’t understand. If you think you are living a sin-free life, you are only fooling yourself. If you think anyone but Jesus Christ has or can lead a sin-free life, you, again, are fooling yourself.
What was Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross for if we can lead a sin-free life by doing good works and by our own initiative and wil ...[text shortened]... , but they are not a requirement to be saved. They are evidence of someone who already is saved.
What's important here is that JESUS expects His followers to stop committing sin. They are His "true disciples". If you understood what Jesus was saying in John 8, you'd understand this. Once again:
John 8
"34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
" 31 ...If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
With every post, you keep demonstrating that YOU do not believe Jesus. Instead you believe those other than Jesus which is where you get your assertion. For all your talk about the importance of believing Jesus, you keep demonstrating that you don't.
The gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry does not support your assertion that no one but Jesus can stop committing sin. Perhaps it's time you faced this reality.
Originally posted by @thinkofoneIf you believe you or anyone else can live a sin-free life (i.e. stop committing sin,) I would suggest you either do not understand what sin is or you have a far too optimistic view of your and other people’s abilities.
[b]If you think anyone but Jesus Christ has or can lead a sin-free life, you, again, are fooling yourself.
What's important here is that JESUS expects His followers to stop committing sin. They are His "true disciples". If you understood what Jesus was saying in John 8, you'd understand this. Once again:
[quote]John 8
"34Jesus answered them, “T ...[text shortened]... sertion that no one but Jesus can stop committing sin. Perhaps it's time you faced this reality.[/b]
But I am curious as to specifically how you or anyone else thinks they can lead, or are leading, a sin-free life. Is it by will power? Doing good works? Reading the Bible? Prayer? All four?
He who justifies himself by the law must keep the whole law - no slip ups and no exceptions.
Paul in Galatians best identified the purpose of the law.
“But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.“
(Galatians 3:23-25)
In other words, the purpose of the law was to demonstrate our need for a Saviour because we cannot keep the law on our own.
Originally posted by @romans1009If you believe you or anyone else can live a sin-free life (i.e. stop committing sin,) I would suggest you either do not understand what sin is or you have a far too optimistic view of your and other people’s abilities.
If you believe you or anyone else can live a sin-free life (i.e. stop committing sin,) I would suggest you either do not understand what sin is or you have a far too optimistic view of your and other people’s abilities.
But I am curious as to specifically how you or anyone else thinks they can lead, or are leading, a sin-free life. Is it by will power ...[text shortened]... of the law was to demonstrate our need for a Saviour because we cannot keep the law on our own.
Once again, it is Jesus who has this view as clearly shown in John 8.
Clearly you do not believe Jesus.
You seemed to have acknowledged the importance of believing Jesus. Perhaps it's time you started believing Him.
Instead you continue to believe others.
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeDo you realize your first and second paragraphs contradict each other?
Paul clarified that 'genuine salvation is entirely of God and it inevitably results in a life of good works.'
We therefore can not have a Christian who gives mouth worship and believes that alone is enough to save him. Works are not only 'evidence' they are a divine requirement for salvation.
In the first paragraph, you say genuine salvation “inevitably results in a life of good works.”
I agree with this!
But then in the second paragraph, you say good works “are a divine requirement for salvation.”
So in one case you’re saying genuine salvation results in good works and in the other case you’re saying good works are a requirement for salvation.
That the two are not the same is illustrated by the thief on the cross who achieved salvation after expressing faith in Jesus Christ (who was on the cross next to him) and who had no opportunity to do good works.
Thinking that salvation is obtained by faith plus works also leads to the obvious question of what the dispensation is of someone who accepts Christ but then dies minutes or hours later before he or she has the opportunity to do any good works. Saved or not?
Originally posted by @thinkofoneThen I would imagine people who claim to live a sin-free life never get angry and never look with lust at another woman. Because if you do either of those, you’re sinning, according to Jesus.
[b]If you believe you or anyone else can live a sin-free life (i.e. stop committing sin,) I would suggest you either do not understand what sin is or you have a far too optimistic view of your and other people’s abilities.
Once again, it is Jesus who has this view as clearly shown in John 8.
Clearly you do not believe Jesus.
You seemed to ...[text shortened]... g Jesus. Perhaps it's time you started believing Him.
Instead you continue to believe others.[/b]
“Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”
(Matthew 5:21-22)
“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
(Matthew 5:27-28)
Originally posted by @romans1009I fully understand that you don't believe Jesus and that you have many rationalizations for not believing Him. But the bottom line is that you do not believe Him.
Then I would imagine people who claim to live a sin-free life never get angry and never look with lust at another woman. Because if you do either of those, you’re sinning, according to Jesus.
“Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
But I say unto you, Tha ...[text shortened]... n to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
(Matthew 5:27-28)
You are amongst those who say, "‘The way of the Lord is not right." To which God replied, "Are My ways not right?...Is it not your ways that are not right?"