Zarathushtra

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
That sounds like a Nietzschean yes.

The similarity to Buddhism also occurred to me--the right action program. I wonder what Zarathustra would have thought of Buddha's dharma.

One can only speculate, and I will not. My brain is in a state of overload at the moment... I think I'll actually work for a while now... 🙂

Originally posted by stocken
http://www.zarathushtra.com/z/article/overview.htm

This actually makes sense to me. If there's a God, then the teachings of Zarathustra explains the good and evil in the world in a way that I can accept. We make our own choices, and if we make good choices, we will bring good, bad choices will bring evil. To think about the choices we make, most seriousl ...[text shortened]... sophy) is based on the thoughts of an ancient philosopher from the middle east (persian empire).

The fact that apparently Zarathustra is the "inventor" of the concept of monotheistic religion makes him even more interesting. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all follow from the early work of Zarathustra.

Emphasis on "apparently", not "fact".

Originally posted by Halitose
[b]The fact that apparently Zarathustra is the "inventor" of the concept of monotheistic religion makes him even more interesting. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all follow from the early work of Zarathustra.

Emphasis on "apparently", not "fact".[/b]

The whole bible that you believe in is based on anything but fact. It's just a matter of what we find most likely to be true. I'm almost convinced that God was invented by man, and you're not. No real discussion here. Few educated (wom)men has disputed the idea that Zarathustra was the first to speak of one God (I would add that he "invented" monotheism).

(Although, I'm most interested if you could direct me to a source that says otherwise. Seriously, I'm still open-minded about these things, even though I may not seem to from time to time.)

However, this is all beside the point I wanted to make with this thread. (Admittedly, I am partially responsible for that.) I wanted to say that, what Zarathustra spoke of made a lot of sense to me. And I was interested in hearing what others think.

Originally posted by stocken
The fact that apparently Zarathustra is the "inventor" of the concept of monotheistic religion makes him even more interesting. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all follow from the early work of Zarathustra.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zarathustra

While there is wide disagreement about dating, most scholars place Zarathustra around 1000BC - which is clearly too late for "inventing" monotheism. Judaism had been monotheistic for several centuries by then.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zarathustra

While there is wide disagreement about dating, most scholars place Zarathustra around 1000BC - which is clearly too late for "inventing" monotheism. Judaism had been monotheistic for several centuries by then.

Yes, this is interesting. How diverse the estimates are. There are (according to the source you gave) estimates between 10000 and 1000 BC. That's a wide range.

I would, of course, have to study this much closer to be able to say anything about the matter. (That's the same as saying, I could be wrong.)

Still, what do you think about his message? That we are co-workers of God rather than obidient slaves or children? To me, it represents a very positive line of thought, which could be used to improve any life.

[edit]

That we have to take responsibility for our own actions; think hard and feel our way to what is good and right before making choices. It's much harder to harm other people if we realize that noone will be there to say: "You are forgiven" when we screw up. We really must take careful consideration before we do anything in life.

hmmm... so many different theories... what to think?...

"Zoroastrianism is considered by some to be the earliest monotheistic belief to have evolved among humanity, though some derivatives of it are not fully so, as the chief god in derivatives such as Zurvanism is not the sole creator. It has been theorised that Judaism was influenced by Zoroastrianism, mostly during the babylonian captivity, after which the many parts of the Old Testament were written and redacted."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism

[Edit]

There was a part about judaism not originally being a monotheistic religion when searching on judaism in wikipedia. Quite frankly, it seems to me we can't really know, so I'll just stick to the subject. Does anyone out there have anything to say about the teachings of Zarathustra? Is it positive or not, in your opinion?

Originally posted by stocken
hmmm... so many different theories... what to think?...

Have you found anything in Zoroastrianism about God smiting, cursing, condemning & generally carrying on like Jehovah was wont to do in the Old Testament?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Have you found anything in Zoroastrianism about God smiting, cursing, condemning & generally carrying on like Jehovah was wont to do in the Old Testament?

No ???

Originally posted by stocken
No ???

I haven't.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I haven't.

Last sunday, I was standing in the rain (rain in December, awful) waiting for a bus home (having spent the night in new company, so to speak). When the bus finally arrived (me soaking wet) it passed (!!!) me by like I wasn't event there. I got angry, but then realized that the busroute didn't stop at that particular bus stop. (Although you'd think the driver would have been kind enough to do so). Realizing that I had been standing at the wrong bus stop, with the right one being 50 meters or so down the street, I felt stupid.

Your point (however valid it may be) just passed me by like that bus.

🙂

Originally posted by stocken
Your point (however valid it may be) just passed me by like that bus.

Ha ha. Well, Jehovah (the Old Testament God) is often reviled for his despicable (by human standards) deeds--cursing, bringing plagues, that sort of thing. The Zoroastrian God (which may be the same one viewed from a different perspective) is a somewhat pleasanter character--as far as I know.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Ha ha. Well, Jehovah (the Old Testament God) is often reviled for his despicable (by human standards) deeds--cursing, bringing plagues, that sort of thing. The Zoroastrian God (which may be the same one viewed from a different perspective) is a somewhat pleasanter character.

I'd like to ponder a reason for it being so. Why is it that the three biggest religions of the world is punishing and forbidding in nature? Is that why they've become so big? Because most humans feel a need to be punished? Is it therefore logical to conclude, that followers of those religions are in fact - dare I say it? - spiritual masochists, while the priests and their God are the opposite?

God the spiritual sadist. Now, there's an original thought.

Or is it in fact just to control people to their own bidding?

Have you seen this?

http://www.avesta.org/kanga/ka_english_opf_files/slideshow.htm

Tough reading. Might help if it was a little more...cartoonish.

Originally posted by stocken
God the spiritual sadist. Now, there's an original thought.

"God is a sadist and he knows it"--John Balance.

"God is a concept by which we measure our pain"--John Lennon.

Jehovah as megalomaniac sadist--William Blake's Nobodaddy, cutting wings off children.

(It's a viewpoint).

Originally posted by David C
Have you seen this?

http://www.avesta.org/kanga/ka_english_opf_files/slideshow.htm

Tough reading. Might help if it was a little more...cartoonish.

Might help if the scans were of better quality. I'll read it, and see where it leads me.

Wait a minute... You didn't just invoke the threadee in heavy reading, to get him off the forums for a while, did you? Hope you're here when I come back, or I will be pretty mad at you David.