Best Defensive Midfielder Ever?

Originally posted by Tirau Dan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midfielder#Defensive_midfielder

This link defines the role of defensive mid fielder..
Keane Ballack and Vieira are listed as great examples of a box to box midfielders.
The true defensive midf'r is the dominant centre of the field play making general.. they list Dunga as the prime example with Claude Makalele - Chelsea, Real and France as the current tradesman example.
It's not a bad read...

Ballack can also play attacking midfielder center, right behind the two strikers, feeding them assists and playing close to the goal.

Patrick Viera can also play midfielder but he's one of the best DM ever if he did not get so many red cards.

Originally posted by Ragnorak
Sure, but it's pure conjecture (obviously) on blade's part to say that he wouldn't be able to stand against players like Souness. I'd be interested to find out how that opinion could be formed.

D

I agree! 😉

Originally posted by Tirau Dan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midfielder#Defensive_midfielder

This link defines the role of defensive mid fielder..
Keane Ballack and Vieira are listed as great examples of a box to box midfielders.
The true defensive midf'r is the dominant centre of the field play making general.. they list Dunga as the prime example with Claude Makalele - Chelsea, Real and France as the current tradesman example.
It's not a bad read...

That's the first wiki page I've found which I don't agree with. Claiming that Keane wasn't a defensive midfielder is like claiming Schmeichel wasn't a goalkeeper. 🙄

Well done on taking the easy option and allowing other people do your thinking for you, Tirau.

D

Originally posted by Tirau Dan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midfielder#Defensive_midfielder

This link defines the role of defensive mid fielder..
Keane Ballack and Vieira are listed as great examples of a box to box midfielders.
The true defensive midf'r is the dominant centre of the field play making general.. they list Dunga as the prime example with Claude Makalele - Chelsea, Real and France as the current tradesman example.
It's not a bad read...

Contrary to others I think that it is a very good point.

Aren't all of Vieira's red cards an indication of the temperament that a good DM is supposed to possess? Think Davids or Roy Keane

Originally posted by Ragnorak
That's the first wiki page I've found which I don't agree with. Claiming that Keane wasn't a defensive midfielder is like claiming Schmeichel wasn't a goalkeeper. 🙄

Well done on taking the easy option and allowing other people do your thinking for you, Tirau.

D

What a plonky thing to say.. Write a letter to wiki and complain... I choose to support and agree with their definition ..you choose to believe what you like sport.

Defensive midfielders are the lynch pin of the midfield not the box to box box runners... The best lynch pin generals don't do the running game but they form the tactical centre of the game.. They scoop up the ball and keep the team moving forward. You rarely see them score and rarely see them in either box. They don't necessarily have to be the hard men..

Maybe not the greatest but my personal fav was the much underrated Peter Reid.. all style timing and accuracy.

Originally posted by Tirau Dan
What a plonky thing to say.. Write a letter to wiki and complain...

Or I could just edit the page so that it reads how I want it to read. You do understand that wiki is peer edited, don't you? 🙄

"Plonky"? Why am I not surprised that your command of the english language is as lacking as your football knowledge?

Can you explain to me why Gilberto, a player listed as a stereotypical defensive midfielder has scored 8 league goals this term? In your own words, if possible, please explain why he isn't classified as a "Box to box" midfielder in your football positions bible?

D

Originally posted by Ragnorak
Sure, but it's pure conjecture (obviously) on blade's part to say that he wouldn't be able to stand against players like Souness. I'd be interested to find out how that opinion could be formed.

D

Like most posts on here I've expressed my opinion - football (like many other things in life) is about opinions.

My opinion on this matter is formed from the fact that I would've rather played against Roy Keane than Graeme Souness... what more can I say?

I'm not talking out of my arse just because my view is different from yours Rag.

Originally posted by blade68
Like most posts on here I've expressed my opinion - football (like many other things in life) is about opinions.

My opinion on this matter is formed from the fact that I would've rather played against Roy Keane than Graeme Souness... what more can I say?

I'm not talking out of my arse just because my view is different from yours Rag.

It really doesn't matter where why or how you formed your opinion. You were probably more likely to get bruised against Souness..lol. I really thought the wiki article interesting and very pert to this thread and did not deserve to get insulted by the ever plonky Ragnorak. Which puts me off coming to the threads.

My era of football watching in NZ ended with sky tv and the end of Sunday Match of the day on free tv and I doubt if I've even seen Gilberto play so have no opinion ..

I was and always will have the game in my blood and follow Saints as closely as one can half way around the world.

I enjoyed Keane and remember Souness being a hard tackler with a massive shot reminiscent of Peter Lorimer. Keane is a great player who was always on the ball and always moving forward..

In my opinion and I really don't mind people differing.. Keane wasn't a player to hold the ball and set up tactical play from the centre mid.. he was a running player with a hard fast tackle a real fox terrier.. end to end. Souness was a pitbull you didn't mess with.

The Wiki definition of the lynch pin players is a style I really admire.. We all have fav players and styles.. that doesn't take away from one or the other. Though not the greatest I loved Peter Reid because he always appeared to have all the time in the world and set up so much play.

Originally posted by blade68
Like most posts on here I've expressed my opinion - football (like many other things in life) is about opinions.

My opinion on this matter is formed from the fact that I would've rather played against Roy Keane than Graeme Souness... what more can I say?

I'm not talking out of my arse just because my view is different from yours Rag.

You're not talking our of your arse when you say that Keane wouldn't be able to play amateur Sunday League?

Most opinions given on here are based on some kind of evidence, eg: Greatest manager ever based on trophy record (or in some cases, trophies that are going to be won), but your opinion that Keane isn't as hard as Souness is rubbish, considering they played in a very different era with very different rules.

D

The post that was quoted here has been removed

You apologise flippantly and pick on my character totally unjustly and wrongly..

Originally posted by Ragnorak
You're not talking our of your arse when you say that Keane wouldn't be able to play amateur Sunday League?

Most opinions given on here are based on some kind of evidence, eg: Greatest manager ever based on trophy record (or in some cases, trophies that are going to be won), but your opinion that Keane isn't as hard as Souness is rubbish, considering they played in a very different era with very different rules.

D

Without wishing to get in to a childish argument Rag... you took my 'amateur Sunday League' comment out of context... I didn't say hw wouldn't be able to play, I said he's not live with it.

...and your reply 'but your opinion that Keane isn't as hard as Souness is rubbish' is pretty outlandish really. An opinion is an opinion whether you agree with it or not.
It's not rubbish - it's my opinion.

End of... as far as I'm concerned.

I've put across my point of view - it's up to you to deal with it buddy!

gilberto

Originally posted by blade68
Without wishing to get in to a childish argument Rag... you took my 'amateur Sunday League' comment out of context... I didn't say hw wouldn't be able to play, I said he's not live with it.

...and your reply 'but your opinion that Keane isn't as hard as Souness is rubbish' is pretty outlandish really. An opinion is an opinion whether you agree with it or ...[text shortened]... cerned.

I've put across my point of view - it's up to you to deal with it buddy!

My point being that in Souness' days, players were allowed kick the living daylights out of opponents. They were the rules under which they played. In Keane's day, you couldn't get away with it. Frankly, I think it's ridiculous of you to form an opinion that Keane isn't as hard as Souness simply because the rules wouldn't allow him to be. Would Keane be viewed as one of the top midfielders in the world if he went out and played as aggressively as Souness? No, simply because he'd be banned more often than not.

Now, using similar logic to the one you used to form that opinion, you'd be of the opinion that Ayrton Senna wasn't half the driver that Michael Schumacher was. Of course, saying this ignores the fact that they drove in different eras, with different technologies and different rules.

How did I take your comment out of context? "Keane wouldn't live in an amateur league, away from the public eye, with referees who don't care about 'protecting' players. ", implying that Keane couldn't play at Sunday League level and only survived playing top level football because referees protected him. Do you honestly believe that?

Opinions can't be rubbish? It's my opinion that Sheffield United are the worst team to have ever graced the premiership. I'm lucky you can't tell me that my opinion is rubbish, possibly by pointing to their points tally, the fact that they aren't even in the bottom three, or by using teams like Sunderland last year, or Swindon's points tally from a few years ago. 😉

D