Champions League 2007/2008

Originally posted by Palynka
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Who would you swap Vidic for then?

D

Originally posted by Ragnorak
Who would you swap Vidic for then?

D

Carvalho, Terry, Pepe, Mexes, Puyol, Gallas, ...

Originally posted by Palynka
Carvalho, Terry, Pepe, Mexes, Puyol, Gallas, ...

Carvalho - Parochialism evident. Good player but quite injury prone. Also 29 compared to Vidic's 26.
Terry - I nearly said he was the only player I'd swap Vidic for, but decided against it.
Pepe - You'd swap a record breaking proven player for a player who did well in the mediocre Portuguese League and currently can't get into the Madrid team? More parochial bias.
Mexes - Good player, more like Ferdinand than Vidic. Wasn't too hot when United demolished Roma 7-1.
Puyol - I've always highly rated Puyol. Barca defense is shocking this season, and he's coming to the end of his career. Why would you swap a player with 8 of his best years ahead of him for one with 1 or 2 more years at the top?
Gallas - Top player, again I'd say more like Ferdinand than Vidic. Also, has an attitude problem.

I think you'll have to do better than that.

D

Originally posted by Angry Boy
I guess that depends on how highly you rate him doesn't it?

Good point, I rate him very highly.

Originally posted by Ragnorak
Carvalho - Parochialism evident. Good player but quite injury prone. Also 29 compared to Vidic's 26.
Terry - I nearly said he was the only player I'd swap Vidic for, but decided against it.
Pepe - You'd swap a record breaking proven player for a player who did well in the mediocre Portuguese League and currently can't get into the Madrid team? More par c. Also, has an attitude problem.

I think you'll have to do better than that.

D

It's funny that you attack me on parochialism when it is YOU defending that you wouldn't trade Vidic for ANYONE. Hypocrite, much?

Carvalho is a magnificent central defender. He just doesn't get enough credit because Terry gets all the media attention.

Second, Vidic is 26 and Carvalho and Puyol are both 29. You need to work on your math if you say that Vidic has 8 years ahead of him and Puyol just 1(?) or 2.

Yep, I'd swap Vidic for Pepe in an instant. Your ignorance from never watching him play is self-evident.

I love it that you mention the Roma game when talking about Mexes. Probably it's (again) because you only see him play when it's against United. Open those blinkers.

Edit - And Pepe played in Porto, and we have MORE European titles than your precious Manchester. But again, your typically British view of football prevents you from looking at the big picture.

Originally posted by Angry Boy
1. Carragher is a far better defender than Vidic

2. I'm quite happy with having Agger over Vidic

- but then we're obviously both biased.

Totally flawless? John Terry if you read the "popular" (gutter) press apparently is .....

John Terry isn't the quickest of centre halves. I would probably take Terry over Vidic but definitely Vidic over Carragher.

Originally posted by Ragnorak

Terry - I nearly said he was the only player I'd swap Vidic for, but decided against it.


I think you'll have to do better than that.

D

Why didn't you say it then? It would have made you look less foolish.

Originally posted by Palynka
It's funny that you attack me on parochialism when it is YOU defending that you wouldn't trade Vidic for ANYONE. Hypocrite, much?

Carvalho is a magnificent central defender. He just doesn't get enough credit because Terry gets all the media attention.

Second, Vidic is 26 and Carvalho and Puyol are both 29. You need to work on your math if you say that ...[text shortened]... ain, your typically British view of football prevents you from looking at the big picture.

How is it parochialism that Vidic is one of the best young defenders in the world, with years ahead of him? It's also not my fault that he is part of a record breaking defense. Neither is it my fault that since his move to United, he has been named in the PFA PL team of the year, and shortlisted for the UEFA European Club defender of the year and the FIFPRO World XI.

Yep, I'd swap Vidic for Pepe in an instant. Your ignorance from never watching him play is self-evident.
It's difficult to watch a player who can't make a first team squad. Even more difficult to compare a reserve team player with the world's top defenders.

I have Portuguese League games and highlights at home, but to be honest, it is unwatchable at the moment. Skill wise, these days, I'd probably put it on a par with the amateur Irish League. In fairness though, the Portuguese League is a great feeder League for the big, serious leagues around Europe.

I love it that you mention the Roma game when talking about Mexes.
I also mentioned that he was a good player. I hoped United would sign him when he was a kid at Auxerre. I also mentioned that he was more like Ferdinand, and what United need with Ferdinand is somebody ultra physical like Vidic.


Porto..have MORE European titles than your precious Manchester.
You may want to recount. Luckily for you, things won't get too confusing as you'll only need the fingers on one hand (albeit, twice).

D

European Cups/Champions League

Porto:2
MU:2

Cup Winners Cup:

Porto:0
MU:1

UEFA Cup:
Porto:1
MU: 0

European Super Cup:
Porto:1
MU: 1

Intercontinental/World Club Cup:
Porto: 2
MU: 1

Total:
Porto: 6
MU: 5

edit: cue lame correction by Rag that the last one isn't European. Ok, point taken. We still have more international honours than you.

edit: Not only that, our success is more recent than mighty mighty Man U. Remind me what your critique of Liverpool's many titles is...

Originally posted by Palynka
European Cups/Champions League

Porto:2
MU:2

Cup Winners Cup:

Porto:0
MU:1

UEFA Cup:
Porto:1
MU: 0

European Super Cup:
Porto:1
MU: 1

Intercontinental/World Club Cup:
Porto: 2
MU: 1

Total:
Porto: 6
MU: 5

edit: cue lame correction by Rag that the last one isn't European. Ok, point taken. We still have more international honours ...[text shortened]... recent than mighty mighty Man U. Remind me what your critique of Liverpool's many title is...

Sorry Intercontinental/World club championships are not European/Uefa competitions. Therefore it is 4-4.

Originally posted by Virtue76
Sorry Intercontinental/World club championships are not European/Uefa competitions. Therefore it is 4-4.

Ok. So you agree then that Porto is more successful INTERNATIONALLY than MU.

Originally posted by Palynka
Ok. So you agree then that Porto is more successful INTERNATIONALLY than MU.

Can't argue with that.

Originally posted by Palynka
European Cups/Champions League
Intercontinental/World Club Cup:
Porto: 2
MU: 1

Total:
Porto: 6
MU: 5

edit: cue lame correction by Rag that the last one isn't European. Ok, point taken. We still have more international honours than you.

edit: Not only that, our success is more recent than mighty mighty Man U. Remind me what your critique of Liverpool's many titles is...

LOL. Of course it's a "lame correction". Like if I included all of United's domestic Reserve competition wins in a count of their European trophies, it'd be really lame of you to correct my figure. 🙄

To be honest, I don't really understand why you brought the history of the 2 clubs into a discussion about Pepe. So ye had a couple of successfull years and then flogged the manager and entire squad. As I said, the average Portuguese League is a great feeder League for the more serious leagues, like the English and Spanish.

A consideration of historic accomplishments is rather complicated anyway, considering the fact that United had an entire squad wiped out in a plane crash, and had numerous years out of European competition due to Heysel.

Anyway, as I stated, this is pretty irrelevant.

Pepe played a few good games for Porto, they (as is typical of Portuguese teams) cashed in on him to a big club, and he's played twice for them, got booked, got dropped and got knocked out by a team mate in a training ground bust-up.

As I stated, the parochialism behind this pick is evident. He's unproven in a decent league and unproven internationally, yet you rate him above Vidic.

D

Madrid should have kept Woodgate instead of getting Pepe.

Originally posted by Ragnorak
LOL. Of course it's a "lame correction". Like if I included all of United's domestic Reserve competition wins in a count of their European trophies, it'd be really lame of you to correct my figure. 🙄

To be honest, I don't really understand why you brought the history of the 2 clubs into a discussion about Pepe. So ye had a couple of successfull years ...[text shortened]... oven in a decent league and unproven internationally, yet you rate him above Vidic.

D

How is including domestic competitions comparable? Porto can't win those competitions and vice-versa. And MU would still lose if you included domestic competitions.

My mediocre club has won as much as you in Europe and more Internationally. This is the only stage where they both compete together and therefore the only valid one for comparison. Face it, you just aren't as good as you think.

As for the plane crash and Heysel those excuses fail when you realize Porto's trophies are more recent than MU's. Besides, until 1974 Porto didn't won much because Benfica was being promoted by Salazar, our local dictator. If you want lame excuses, we have them as well.

Also, I don't see how it's more "parochial' of me to defend a player sold for €30M that played for my team than of you defending someone that plays for your team and was bought by around £7M (€11.5M). So, please, work on your logical skills because they seriously need an update if you want to have a bare minimum of consistency.