Go Flyers!

What does everyone think about Chris Pronger stealing the two game pucks?

Originally posted by Very Rusty
The scores have been 6-5 and 2-1...I would say Philly can score.

A goalie can be hot and cold in the same series. "Two goals in 28 seconds was the difference". Philly played very well in the 3rd period. Lets not count all our chickens till they actually hatch.

Of course a goalie can go cold, but you know that is unusual. It's lots harder the other way around. Once a goalie goes cold it's hard to psyche him up. Phillie can score of course or they would not have made it this far. However, they don't defend nearly as well. The difference will be the D!

No opinion about stolen hockey pucks. That's on the refs for failing to secure after the game. I'm sure league can make Pronger give them back.

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
Of course a goalie can go cold, but you know that is unusual. It's lots harder the other way around. Once a goalie goes cold it's hard to psyche him up. Phillie can score of course or they would not have made it this far. However, they don't defend nearly as well. The difference will be the D!

No opinion about stolen hockey pucks. That's on the refs for failing to secure after the game. I'm sure league can make Pronger give them back.

Actually I don't think it is up to the refs, can you tell me where that rule is in the rule book? Perhaps I am missing something here.

I don't know how you can say one Goalie is hot and the other is cold when there has only been a one goal difference in the two games.

I think both teams showed how well they can defend in game2. I don't think we have seen the best games out of these two teams yet. I expect to see Philly's best game so far tonight! 😉

Originally posted by Very Rusty
Actually I don't think it is up to the refs, can you tell me where that rule is in the rule book? Perhaps I am missing something here.

I don't know how you can say one Goalie is hot and the other is cold when there has only been a one goal difference in the two games.

I think both teams showed how well they can defend in game2. I don't think we hav ...[text shortened]... best games out of these two teams yet. I expect to see Philly's best game so far tonight! 😉

Did not say the other goalie was cold. I see him as not as hot and has failed his team on the high pressure situations in which he could have made game saving stops. I see Niemi as hotter because the only high pressure goal he's allowed was a flukey deflection goal no goalie could have stopped. In game one his defensemen simply failed to block shots. NO goalie can stop shots without help from his d-line. Here's an interesting observation from a hockey blog:
Antti Niemi was the hawks savior last night in a spectacular rebound performance.

Niemi was as solid as can be after a sub par game in game 1 of the Stanley Cup playoffs. Niemi made 32 saves with some being down right incredible stops to frustrate the Flyers offensive attack. Hawk fans should not be surprised as Niemi has always bounced back after a questionable non quality start with a solid outing the next game and this is why he is the best NHL goaltender in the playoffs thus far. Michael Leighton was tested 26 times and stopped 24 of those chances but half of those were from long range and to be completely fair Chicago did not have a ton of quality scoring chances throughout the game.



The rule book? I am only making a trans-sports inference whereby in every major sport the safekeeper of the ball is the ref. The exception is NFL where teams provide the balls and if a player keeps a ball he reimburses the team. I've never known of an NBA, FIFA, or other sanctioned game where players just make off with equipment. For a player on the losing side to be allowed to make off with an important memento is outrageous indeed! I hold the refs responsible.

The rule book? I am only making a trans-sports inference whereby in every major sport the safekeeper of the ball is the ref. The exception is NFL where teams provide the balls and if a player keeps a ball he reimburses the team. I've never known of an NBA, FIFA, or other sanctioned game where players just make off with equipment. For a player on the losing side to be allowed to make off with an important memento is outrageous indeed! I hold the refs responsible.[/b]

There is actually a NHL rule book. I don't believe it says anything about the ref being responsible for the game puck.

I believe Pronger stole the game pucks to get under the skin of his opponents. You know like some posters do to other posters. 😉 If it had been against any rule, he would have already been fined, and told to give them back. That seemed to be a bigger story than the closeness of the two games.

I am calling a Philly win for tonight! 😉

Originally posted by Very Rusty
There is actually a NHL rule book. I don't believe it says anything about the ref being responsible for the game puck.

I believe Pronger stole the game pucks to get under the skin of his opponents. You know like some posters do to other posters. 😉 If it had been against any rule, he would have already been fined, and told to give them back. That seem ...[text shortened]... bigger story than the closeness of the two games.

I am calling a Philly win for tonight! 😉

If you already knew the rule then why make it an issue instead of stating it outright? As stated before I do not claim to know any rule book and was making a cross-sport inference. If the league does not want control of it's big game mementos that's their business. To wantonly allow a losing side player to steal undeserved, unearned mementos is really a sad state of affairs. In the NFL a player is allowed to keep the ball if it represents a milestone such as when Emmit Smith broke the Walter Payton yard record.

Pronger becomes the story when the series itself is likely perceived as a done deal by sportswriters. In effect teams winning game one have gone on to win in a goodly percentage of finals series. Teams winning games one and two have won 31 of 33 series. Hence the Pronger issue becomes something to talk about since the series statistically is a done deal! Flyers are first team to come back from 0-3 to win a series since 1975. As series go it is a lot tougher in a finals where I think last time it happened was the maple leafs coming back to beat red wings after being down 0-3. I say Hawks win again tonight to make it 8-0 on the road for the record! Even though statistically speaking it is more likely Flyers will win the pressure's on them, more than the Hawks!

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
If you already knew the rule then why make it an issue instead of stating it outright? As stated before I do not claim to know any rule book and was making a cross-sport inference. If the league does not want control of it's big game mementos that's their business. To wantonly allow a losing side player to steal undeserved, unearned mementos is really a ...[text shortened]... cally speaking it is more likely Flyers will win the pressure's on them, more than the Hawks!

Quit comparing NFL & NHL apples and oranges.

I said I didn't THINK there was anything in the rule book about it. Correct me if I am wrong, perhaps you missed that. Sometimes it is a good thing to read what the other person actually said. 😛

Lets wait till the game is played tonight and Philly wins the game, and you can say, OK VR right again as usual. 😉

Originally posted by Very Rusty
Quit comparing NFL & NHL apples and oranges.

I said I didn't THINK there was anything in the rule book about it. Correct me if I am wrong, perhaps you missed that. Sometimes it is a good thing to read what the other person actually said. 😛

Lets wait till the game is played tonight and Philly wins the game, and you can say, OK VR right again as usual. 😉

Sports rules are never that dissimilar because sports beget other sports. Sports do not get created in a vacuum, hence basketball and soccer are so similar. Hockey resembles soccer also in many ways. Therefore comparisons are apt and germaine to discussions. Pronger appears to be a thief, plain and simple. Whether he does it to get under an opponent's skin is irrelevant.

If I misinterpreted you forgive me. The way you put it sounded like an affirmative assertion of fact rather than a question or quasi question or assertion of doubt. I'll be watching tonight as the Hawks set the NHL record for consecutive road wins, but I won't rub it in since I know you to be a good and decent guy!

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
Sports rules are never that dissimilar because sports beget other sports. Sports do not get created in a vacuum, hence basketball and soccer are so similar. Hockey resembles soccer also in many ways. Therefore comparisons are apt and germaine to discussions. Pronger appears to be a thief, plain and simple. Whether he does it to get under an opponent's s or consecutive road wins, but I won't rub it in since I know you to be a good and decent guy!

ROFLMAO....Soccer and Hockey similiar? Please count me the ways!! Not to mention soccer has got to be the most boring game to watch! 😛

Perhaps the crushing body checks? The puck is so like a soccer ball? The skating ability compared to running?

Leave Pronger alone, there are no rules concerning game pucks. The Black Hawks even said he could have the game puck tonight when they win game 3! So if they don't care you shouldn't. Mark Messier was on and thought it was great gamesmanship, perhaps you could send him a tweet. Let me know his answer. 😉

Originally posted by Very Rusty
ROFLMAO....Soccer and Hockey similiar? Please count me the ways!! Not to mention soccer has got to be the most boring game to watch! 😛

Perhaps the crushing body checks? The puck is so like a soccer ball? The skating ability compared to running?

Leave Pronger alone, there are no rules concerning game pucks. The Black Hawks even said he could have th ...[text shortened]... ught it was great gamesmanship, perhaps you could send him a tweet. Let me know his answer. 😉

You're acting as if I said they were identical. For an obviously smart man that is quite disingenuous. Here's the similarities: Goalies in both sports. The basic premise is to put an object in goal by passing and shooting. Attackers and defenders. Lifted straight from soccer, an older sport. Boring? Tell that to billions of fans who will watch the cup raptly. Other similarities: shooting, blocking of goalies' sight lines to obstruct view. Now indeed I have always advocated for soccer to copy the salient differences. For example: soccer needs a power play rule instead of ejections. Body checks would make soccer more interesting. Starting and stopping the clock instead of subjectively allowing the ref to decide the amount of time left.

You are the one who brought up Pronger doing it to get under opponents' skins. If it does not tick off the Hawks ain't my fault. Messier? Why would I want to tweet anyone, let alone Messier? If it was not done to tick off opponents then why is it good gamesmanship? That would be a contradiction in terms.

You were right! Phillie stole one indeed! Bet you were worried I was going to be right!

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
You're acting as if I said they were identical. For an obviously smart man that is quite disingenuous. Here's the similarities: Goalies in both sports. The basic premise is to put an object in goal by passing and shooting. Attackers and defenders. Lifted straight from soccer, an older sport. Boring? Tell that to billions of fans who will watch the cup ick off opponents then why is it good gamesmanship? That would be a contradiction in terms.

You would have to ask Messier about the good gamesmanship and get him to explain it to you as he said it.

I brought it up, and you thought it should be up to the refs to manage the game puck for some reason.

You are silly comparing soccer to hockey, there is no comparison what so ever. How many stitches has soccer player taken from getting the ball in the head? You compare a goalie stopping a 6 ounce puck going as high as 100 miles per hour to kicking a round ball into a net the size of an 18 wheeler. Soccer is a very soft game compared to hockey.

Yes, I could not sit and watch soccer, far too boring for me. Same as watching darts or bowling...LOL... Consider the billions of fans told! 😛

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
You were right! Phillie stole one indeed! Bet you were worried I was going to be right!

Lose gracefully, Philly stole nothing! Worked hard for the win and deserved it. Had the blackhawks scored after that goal was taken back, everyone would indeed say the blackhawks had stolen one, luckily that didn't happen.

Philly out worked them in the 3rd periods of the last two games it was bound to pay off eventually, and if they continue to out work them in the 3rd period, there could be another big upset in the making.

To sum it up, Rusty you were right would have been good! 😉 We have a series going now!!! 🙂

Originally posted by Very Rusty
Lose gracefully, Philly stole nothing! Worked hard for the win and deserved it. Had the blackhawks scored after that goal was taken back, everyone would indeed say the blackhawks had stolen one, luckily that didn't happen.

Philly out worked them in the 3rd periods of the last two games it was bound to pay off eventually, and if they continue to out wor ...[text shortened]...

To sum it up, Rusty you were right would have been good! 😉 We have a series going now!!! 🙂

Could have gone either way. If Phillie had worked the third period right as you say there would have been no overtime. They merely tied. Remember Phillie tied, they did not exactly overwhelm. They were lucky and you know it. I gave you your due. Merely pointed out that I bet you were worried Phillie might not pull it off. Credit is due wheen it's due. It is not exactly a crushing win. They might win again tomorrow night. If they do then we have a series. Never forget. Teams up 2-0 have won 31 of 33 series. What is ironic is that it seems Pronger was the difference maker so perhaps he is getting under the Hawks' skin!

Originally posted by Very Rusty
You would have to ask Messier about the good gamesmanship and get him to explain it to you as he said it.

I brought it up, and you thought it should be up to the refs to manage the game puck for some reason.

You are silly comparing soccer to hockey, there is no comparison what so ever. How many stitches has soccer player taken from getting the bal ...[text shortened]... boring for me. Same as watching darts or bowling...LOL... Consider the billions of fans told! 😛

I brought it up because there would be no story if someone was in charge of pucks when games ended. So basically anyone can make off with the game puck? Pretty silly.

You can't deny hockey was copied from soccer. That the sports diverged is evident in the rules diffrernces. However it is the same basic premise. Nets goaltended by goalies. Passing. Scoring by putting object in net. Again, no sport happens in a vacuum. Tennis is an offshoot of Tamborello, a game played with tambourines and a simialr ball and dates from medieval times. Again I never said they are identical. I am not saying they are equally appealing either. That a player gets stitches means nothing. Soccer is not a soft sport. Hockey is simply a rougher sport.